Court, and microphones

[DorraineStanley]

I'm a court reporter that would like to know more about mics. I sit in court and takedown/record all proceedings. I then take the recording home and type a transcript.

I place a unidirectional mic (Apex 381) at the judge's bench as well as the witness stand. I place omnidirectional mics (Shure SM63) at the attorney's tables, because the attorney's will get up from their seats and roam around while they talk. I place an HGM-1, from Martel Electronics, on the lecturn. And I also place an HGM-1 at the judge's bench for when there is a bench conference.

A bench conference is when the attorneys and the judge have a private discussion. There are times when this private discussion will be taken down, other times not. In a case where it is to be taken down, I put my headset on and am able to stay at my location and hear the entire conversation, taking it down.

I need to share with other reporters why I use the mics I do. I'm now evaluating my use of mics, and whether there are better options. Since I'm not a "mic person," I'm on a mission to know more. The ONLY thing I know about mics is what I've read. I'm printing lots of stuff on the Net, but I'm not always sure if I have the correct picture. Things are still very foggy. So please allow me to ask a few questions.

1. From what I gather, the "flat response" is desirable, but may not be so in recording voices. True? No?

2. Why do some mics not work with computers?

3. What is lavalier?

4. Can I interchange the use of mono and stereo adapters?

5. Is the difference in condenser and electret simply that the electret is comparable to a condenser if it receives power?

Like I said, I'm not a "mic person" so my questions may not be worded quite right. So please pardon my ignorance. I'm sure these questions will be followed with more "dummie" questions.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

 

[dgatwood]

So please allow me to ask a few questions.

1. From what I gather, the "flat response" is desirable, but may not be so in recording voices. True? No?

Since you're trying to get the most understandable speech with a mix of male and female voices, flat response is probably the safest bet. You can always do a low cut in post if necessary, but you can never put something back that isn't there.

2. Why do some mics not work with computers?

If a mic requires phantom power, you would have to have a mixer or an audio interface that can provide phantom power. Cheap audio cards (Soundblaster-grade stuff) doesn't provide phantom power. Of course, such cheap sound cards also add a lot of noise, which would make them exceptionally poor for what you're trying to do (understand voices at potentially low volume). See the answer to #5 for more on phantom power.

3. What is lavalier?

Clip-on. It's another name for a lapel mic.

4. Can I interchange the use of mono and stereo adapters?

I don't know what you mean. Explain what you're plugging into what and we can tell you if it will work....

5. Is the difference in condenser and electret simply that the electret is comparable to a condenser if it receives power?

An electret condenser has a permanently charged backplate in the element, so it requires only a little bit of voltage to power it. A traditional (externally polarized) condenser requires a polarizing voltage on the capsule. Thus, a true condenser will always require phantom power, while some electret condensers can be powered by batteries.

 

[phaqu]

Wow,..a lot of stuff there.....
Ill try to help only if you promise to help me out if I get busted for something down there.
Anyway,..
1. Theres a lot more to it than this, but....Mics with a flat response add no frequency bumps or dips. This can be good and bad. The mics that do so are used to help accentuate or hide what might be lacking or overbearing in the original source. But if you have an obnoxious frequency in the source and use a mic that adds to that frequency, it REALLY stands out. So flat response is what you hear is what you get,kind of.
2.You would probably need a mic pre amp to boost the signal and/or you need phantom power to power a condenser. Also, youll need reducing on the input to 1/8" in most cases (to connect to your sound card).
3. A lavaliere is a very small mic that can be attached to say a jacket or collar. Its unobtrusive so it will not get in the way.
4.Not sure what it is your asking.
5.Simply put, yes.
It seems like you have the right mic choices and placements for your situation. A directional mic for the honorable "who ever he is" ( cause thats what everyone wants to hear in the end, preferably from my point of view "Not Guilty"),and and omni for the roaming liar/lawyer.

 

[ozraves]

One of the local courthouses hired a security alarm installer company to do the sound system in the courtroom. I bet you can't guess what doesn't work in the new courthouse addition.

Anyhow, in courtrooms, as in studios, one of the big overlooked issues is room treatment. Crappy sound often comes about due to crappy architecture. However, this thread is about mics...

1. Don't worry about flat response. You just want mics that tend to capture the spoken word such that you can hear it to make a record.

2. Why do some mics not work with computers? I'm not sure if you're referencing some sort of electronic interference or if you're talking about plugging mics directly into computers. If the latter is the case, then please take note that almost all mics do not work with computers absent some sort of external interfacing such as a mic preamp and an analog to digital converter. Many microphones require phantom power. Most mic preamps today feature phantom power.

3. As has been said, a lavalier is a lapel mic.

4. In your line of work, stereo does not matter. However, if you're talking about plugs, then you should always plug stereo into stereo and mono into mono. There are adapters depending on what you're trying to connect.

5. Regardless of what you're trying to get at both electret condensers and true condensers require phantom power.

 

[DorraineStanley]

Boy oh boy, I've struck gold. I thought that I'd get some good answers here.

Okay, in regard to No. 1, I think I get what y'all are saying. I think. So that one's okay.

No. 2: I plugged a Sound Grabber into my laptop during court one day (trying out a new mic), and there was no audio afterwards. Thank goodness for backups. Anyway, I was curious to know, when I go shopping for a mic, how am I to know which ones will work on a laptop and which ones won't? I use the HGM-1 and the Conference Grabber with my laptop; I use the dynamic mics with my 4-track Sony BM 246 cassette recorder. I've never tried this, but will the dynamic mics work on my laptop? From what I've read in the posts, they will not.

As to No. 3, thank you. I was just too dadgum lazy to look it up somewhere.

No. 4: There are occasions when I will plug my HGM-1 mic into my Sony BM246 cassette recorder which has XLR plugs. I use a 1/8 to 1/4 and finally to XLR. I knew that mono adapters were designed for a reason, and I knew that stereo adapters were designed for a reason, and I didn't know if going from mono to stereo, or stereo to mono made any difference.

If I had stereo headphones to listen in stereo, and I used a mono adapter on them, would the sound then be in mono instead of stereo? That may not even be an applicable question, but I'm just going on reasoning here.

No. 5: Okay, I read that electret condenser mics have a permanent voltage built in. How is that? I went on to read that they do not require an external power source. I've been a stay-at-home mom for 15 years and didn't start court reporting until just a few years ago, so do you really think that I'm going to comprehend that a mic has a permanent power source and yet does not need a power source to operate? My brain is fried already!!

Once I get to the point of comprehension, I will then be able to ask my questions in more a an understandable format. Have mercy on me.

 

[DorraineStanley]

Let me say this also: I will be conducting seminars in the southeast for courtreporters. The topic will be mics and recorders and various software. I can explain to the reporters which mics are the best for which application, but I'd still like to have a better understanding of the mics themselves, which is the reason for my questions.

Thank you for any details you can provide.

 

[PinkNoise]

Sweeping Statements!

"a true condenser will always require phantom power"

NOT ALWAYS TRUE! A tubed true-condenser mic will usually have its own dedicated power supply, and will not require phantom power. (Granted, this would be an unlikely choice for this application.)

"5. . . . both electret condensers and true condensers require phantom power."

NOT TRUE! Most electrets (e.g. Nakamichi, Sony) run from an internal battery, often an AA. Inexpensive electret lapel mics mostly use a watch battery. Some electrets can also be phantom powered (rare).

 

[DorraineStanley]

Stan,

Thank you for the clarification. I got my information from Media College on the Net. This is all very new to me, and I have a lot to learn.

 

[mshilarious]

NOT TRUE! Most electrets (e.g. Nakamichi, Sony) run from an internal battery, often an AA. Inexpensive electret lapel mics mostly use a watch battery. Some electrets can also be phantom powered (rare).

Phantom-powered electrets are hardly rare. I can think of a few examples . . . like the Shure SM81, for instance.

Anyway, electrets have a permanently polarized backplate, so they don't need a power source for that, but they also have an internal transistor that does need a trickle of power, such as a watch battery, as a minimum.

Now, PC soundcards do provide power, just not enough to power a true condenser unless the mic was designed exactly for that, and none to my knowledge are. Thus, the condenser mics you can plug directly into PCs without any other power source will be electrets. You really don't need to worry about the distinction.

Dynamic mics will generally sound poor into a soundcard because their output is too low, and the PC soundcard's noise will be more noticeable. Condensers, electret or otherwise, have much higher output which makes the noise less of a problem. If an electret mic is designed to work with a PC, it should tell you that, and it will have a 1/8" plug.

I would think there would be a few types of mics most of interest to you: the lapel mic you already have is one; I saw from the website it has internal circuitry from a hearing aid. That is fairly clever; it will be designed to dynamically accentuate frequencies that aid in distinguishing consonants in speech.

Next, podium mics, which in addition to dynamic mics like the SM63 (I've got that one too!) come in various electret models which may interest you--check out Audio-Technica mics for good choices there.

Finally, you might consider pressure zone or boundary mics. Crown makes an inexpensive model that with its battery pack should plug into a PC (somebody check me on that). These are mics that are attached to and aimed at a small plate. This causes the signal level to increase, and thus they are very useful for recording conference-type situations, where you need to be able to capture distant speakers at various locations in a room. Most conference phones use the boundary mic principle. It works even better if placed on a large flat surface, like a table or desk.

 

[dgatwood]

NOT ALWAYS TRUE! A tubed true-condenser mic will usually have its own dedicated power supply, and will not require phantom power. (Granted, this would be an unlikely choice for this application.)

Yeah, true enough. I should have said that they all require external power, which usually comes in the form of phantom power.

 

[dgatwood]

Phantom-powered electrets are hardly rare. I can think of a few examples . . . like the Shure SM81, for instance.

Just to be pedantic, the SM81 can also operate on battery power. Most electrets can be powered by batteries, most can be powered by phantom, a few can only be powered by one or the other.

Battery-only electret mics include the Realistic stereo condenser back in the day. Phantom-only electret mics include the AT2020.

 

[mshilarious]

Just to be pedantic, the SM81 can also operate on battery power. Most electrets can be powered by batteries, most can be powered by phantom, a few can only be powered by one or the other.

Battery-only electret mics include the Realistic stereo condenser back in the day. Phantom-only electret mics include the AT2020.

The SM81 doesn't have an internal battery like the SM94 though. If we really want to be particular, just about any phantom-powered mic could be powered by a stack of 9Vs . . .

But that doesn't have much to do with court reporting.

 

[dgatwood]

The SM81 doesn't have an internal battery like the SM94 though. If we really want to be particular, just about any phantom-powered mic could be powered by a stack of 9Vs . . .

My bad. I did a search for SM81 and battery and found that the user guide talked about powering it via battery and just assumed it actually could be powered by battery without a kludge.

Oddly enough, the PG81 DOES have an internal battery compartment. Weird.

 

[DorraineStanley]

"Anyway, electrets have a permanently polarized backplate, so they don't need a power source for that, but they also have an internal transistor that does need a trickle of power, such as a watch battery, as a minimum."

What does "permanently polarized" mean? Not even in laymen's terms, but in baby terms. <g>

I'm trying to comprehend what needs power. If it's "permanently polarized" and doesn't need a power source for that, but the internal transister does -- Oh boy, go easy on me.

 

[mshilarious]

"Anyway, electrets have a permanently polarized backplate, so they don't need a power source for that, but they also have an internal transistor that does need a trickle of power, such as a watch battery, as a minimum."

What does "permanently polarized" mean? Not even in laymen's terms, but in baby terms. <g>

I'm trying to comprehend what needs power. If it's "permanently polarized" and doesn't need a power source for that, but the internal transister does -- Oh boy, go easy on me.

It means it has the "built-in voltage" you referred to earlier. Really, don't worry about the difference between electrets and true condensers. If you hadn't brought it up, none of us would have mentioned it. Just look at the specs of the mics you want to use, and make sure they are compatible with what you want to plug them into.

 

[DorraineStanley]

Thank you.

I'll most likely have more questions tomorrow or later in the week. So if you don't mind, keep an eye out for me.

 

[Innovations]

1. From what I gather, the "flat response" is desirable, but may not be so in recording voices. True? No?

Flat response is important in recording music. Unless you have singing attornies I wouldn't worry.

2. Why do some mics not work with computers?

What most computers have as a 'mic-in' port has poor quality, and it does not have phantom power. Either way you want to go into the line-in port after using some sort of a preamp.

3. What is lavalier?

A small microphone, usually electret, usually worn on the person.

4. Can I interchange the use of mono and stereo adapters?

Are you meaning using a mono line into the 'stereo line-in' connector ont he computer? Yes.

5. Is the difference in condenser and electret simply that the electret is comparable to a condenser if it receives power?

both use the same principle to convert sound into electrical signals but the electret uses a small permanently charged head.

Frankly if I were in your position I would use a selection of dynamic mics simply because they have maximum durability. You don't have to worry about anybody knocking the mic over with their hand or briefcase or whatever (its not that they wont, is it just that it is highly unlikely that they will do any harm if they do). I would then route them all into a cheap mixer (this may be one application where even the worst mixer-included preamps are good engough) so I could then turn on and off the mics as they were needed and then into the line-in port of your computer. I would then use an inexpensive recording software like Total Recorder.

 

[DorraineStanley]

Innovations,

"What most computers have as a 'mic-in' port has poor quality, and it does not have phantom power. Either way you want to go into the line-in port after using some sort of a preamp."

I noticed that my Marantz 670 has a "mic-in" and a "line-in." What's the difference? I read something regarding that in an earlier post, but was unsure if I understood it.

"Frankly if I were in your position I would use a selection of dynamic mics simply because they have maximum durability. You don't have to worry about anybody knocking the mic over with their hand or briefcase or whatever."

The mics getting knocked over is the least of my worries. I need to be able to pick up the sound of a whisper. We have many witnesses that are very soft spoken. I MUST absolutely get every single word spoken. If we were not able to hear something, we are to stop the proceedings and ask them to repeat it. This is why it's so important that I get the best mics for voices.

Did the soft-spoken witness, with their head down when they speak, state, "He was involved," or "He wasn't involved"? I need to be able to hear the "n't" on the end of the word. In these type situations, I will put my headset on and turn the volume up. So I need a mic that is capable of picking up those little nuances which could make or break the case.

I want a mic that's so good it will pick up someone breathing.

"I would then use an inexpensive recording software like Total Recorder."

I utilize two types of recorders. One, my Sony BM246, where I have the ability to turn off certain mics. It is 4-track, and I run all my mics into it and put my headphones on for monitoring. The golden rule in court is that only one person is to speak at a time, simply because the court reporter cannot takedown two people talking at once. If an argument breaks out where everyone is talking at once, I turn all mics off except for the judge, and I will take down only what the judge says, at least until they begin speaking one at a time. So I love my 246 simpy for that reason.

Secondly, I use a voice recognition system where the words that I say into the stenomask appear as words on the laptop. The laptop has a track for my voice, as well as a track for the room recording. The only drawback here is that the laptop is only 2-track, one for voice and one for the room. Once I'm home and editing the transcript on the laptop for accuracy, I can switch tracks to the room recording to compare the words on the laptop to the words spoken in court. If that one mic that I used for the room recording is not good enough (simply because I was only using one mic), I pull out my trusty ole 246, in which 6 mic were utilized, and listen to that cassette tape. I then have the ability to listen to certain tracks to pick up an individual speaker.

Since cassette tapes are on their way out and digital is on its way in, I certainly need to look for a multi track digital recorder. The problem there is, is there a multi-track digital transcriber available for it?

I also use the Marantz 670 from time to time, but it's only 2-track also.

Oh well, the never-ending saga.