Copywriting old fashion way

[Rusty Coggs]

This is how they used to do it years ago & still do as far as I know, I still do it. 1 copy the songs on cassett,cd or what ever
make a written copy of each song
address it to yourself go to post office have them to stamp it where
the envelope seals at,and never open it unless you need to for legal reasons,And don't forget to date it,the lyric sheets and the
envelope,the post office stamp will also have the date on it,It's
called the poor mans way to copywrite.

 

[hixmix]

No it isn't. It's called the moron's way to copyright.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Well sorry Rusty -- that method doesn't cut it at all - and never did! It did make people feel better having it, but it was nothing more than almost urban legend that it would work. There certainly was no legal defense or recourse to the process... the envelope seal is not considered proof enough to establish a date accurately - they can be undetectably steamed open quite easily. And the law isn't quite so easily circumvented...

Bruce

 

[Rusty Coggs]

Replt to BlueBare

Well sorry Rusty -- that method doesn't cut it at all - and never did! It did make people feel better having it, but it was nothing more than almost urban legend that it would work. There certainly was no legal defense or recourse to the process... the envelope seal is not considered proof enough to establish a date accurately - they can be undetectably steamed open quite easily. And the law isn't quite so easily circumvented...

Bruce

Thers alot of truth in what you
say,But the man was asking for a cheap way of copywriting his songs
in 1972 when I started this was the poor mans way,I used it.
Another way is to distribute copies,with the date the (copywrite symbol) and of course
the authors name.check it out
I didn't just jump off the turnip truck yesterday
R COGGS

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Never said you just jumped off the truck!!! But just 'cos you used doesn't mean it's useful or that it would actually hold up in court..... you didn't need to actually test it, did you?

So yes, you can go thru the motions, but if it doesn't really help, what's the point??? Much better to pay the fee and get the actual copyright, nice and legal... then you *know* you're covered...

Bruce

 

[pglewis]

Then could someone please explain this to me:

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html

Copyright Secured Automatically upon Creation

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. (See following Note.) There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration. See "Copyright Registration."

The U.S. copyright office seems to suggest that Rusty is correct.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

PGLewis....

The minute you write an original work (music, lyrics, whatever) - copyright indicates that you own it and the copyright is entirely yours. That's the easy part....

The hard part then becomes proving the WHEN of when that original idea occurred. For example, both you and I are writing and we happen to each write a song that happens to follow the exact same progression and exact same very cool riff (of course, it'd be cool - what other kind would we write!!! ) - anyways, as far as we each know, we own the copyright because we are under the impression that we each have created an original work. But there is one difference - immediately after I wrote it, I register my copyright and you, unaware that I wrote the same song, do not.

The fact that I have a legal document, proving that I registered such and such song on such and such date as an original work will legally prove my copyright and you wouldn't be able to.

Conversely, had you also mailed yourself a copy of your work at the same time I registered my copyright, again you'd be out of luck because the "sealed envelope" would not be considered proof enough, especially compared to my registered documentation.

Hope that's clear enough to explain - man I hate legal crap!!!

Bruce



[Edited by Blue Bear Sound on 02-14-2001 at 05:00]

 

[pglewis]

Thanks, Bruce. I figured that was the bulk of the issue. I was curious if there were other things in there that I didn't understand. It's easy to get misled with all the cross-references and legalese.

If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner.

So, you can sue for more too if it came down to that ?

 

[smellyfuzz]

I'm sorry I do not understand something....

Blue Bear Sound what Law School did you go to again?

The reason I ask is because my wife graduated form
St. Johns Law a few years back & she seems to think that although
Rusty's way is certainly not the best way to copyright, it just may
hold up in court.

Which you seem to know so much about... blue.


Peace

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Heh-heh.... I'm an engineer, not a damn lawyer! And all my "lawyer skills" come from watching TV court shows!!!! (Judge Judy - yikes!)

But seriously... my info came from trade sources a couple of years back on that very topic. It struck a chord with me 'cos it totally put down the urban legend of "mail yourself a copy", of which I was under the impression at the time that it worked (like anyone else). I can't remember the lawyer who was the source, but it made crystal clear sense.

I mean think about it logically anyways - envelopes can easily be opened undetectably, so it's a no-brainer for a lawyer to bring that point up and have the "mail proof" dismissed. Like I said earlier - do it if it makes you feel better, but (and it amounts to my opinion since I AM NOT a lawyer!), I happen to think it's simply false security without any real legal merit - if it ever gets to the point of being tested, then you've got a problem; but if you had done it the right way the first time...

 

[Krystof01]

I haven't all that much time to spend here today so I'll cut it short ( I haven't read half of the posts, but my point is as follows).

Sending a copy to yourself-I have done this in the past, make sure the person who stamps it does so across the seal of the envelope and sign it for added peace of mind. It is at the end of the day for peace of mind, will it hold up in court?, well what I would say is use this culminated with the fact that you should get someone else to sign and subsequentley verify the material, give it air play ie play it live, show it to friends (not musicains who are likey to pinch or steal though) etc. All these things add up to give you a good case-the more you do the better.

 

[Rusty Coggs]

Yes the more the betterr