control surface and sonar

C

Chipster

Member
Hi,
I just upgraded from proaudio9 to sonar producer. To date all I've really used it for was a midi sequencer, but now I'm setting up a small studio so I can actually record audio. Here's my situation. I am totally blind, and I can tell already that the complexity of it all is going to be a bitch for a blind person, so I'm thinking adding a control surface will make it easier on me. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't afford one of the high end cs like the Tascam, Mackie etc., so I'm wondering if any one here has used anything like the Behringer BCF2000, Evolution UC33e, or the JL Cooper CS32 MiniDesk, or if there's a different control surface that I'm missing out on?
 
LfO said:
Here's a fairly recent thread about someone's woes and eventual success with the Behringer unit.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=170407&highlight=BCF2000
Click to expand...


Thanks. Very imformative to say the least. It looks as though you can get the Behringer to work with some difficulty. I noticed on the Behringer site that the software to create your presets is written in Java. Since most screen readers, including the one I use, has problems with Java maybe I should move on to a different surface.
 
johnnypraze said:
I use the JL and I like it... very easy and controls about everything...
Click to expand...


Does it already come with keymaps for it? It looks pretty sweet. Although I do like the idea of having the motorized faders as found on the BCF.
 
Chipster said:
Thanks. Very imformative to say the least. It looks as though you can get the Behringer to work with some difficulty. I noticed on the Behringer site that the software to create your presets is written in Java. Since most screen readers, including the one I use, has problems with Java maybe I should move on to a different surface.
Click to expand...

That person in the older thread must not be very resourceful. I got a BCF2000 several months ago, and after a [very] little bit of internet research, I found that you need to use it in the Mackie Emulation Mode. Once I did that, it worked flawlessly. Almost too simple.....no difficulty at all.

It has worked fine for me, but I've found that I actually don't use it much; even though I came from the analog world using a mixer and a reel to reel, and 4-tracks before that... :confused: I guess i just find drawing volume envelopes and clicking on virtual faders more to my liking.

"most screen readers ... has problems with Java"???? No Java problems here with Windows or Linux machines. What problems do you have?
 
Last edited:
Chipster said:
Hi,
I just upgraded from proaudio9 to sonar producer. To date all I've really used it for was a midi sequencer, but now I'm setting up a small studio so I can actually record audio. Here's my situation. I am totally blind, and I can tell already that the complexity of it all is going to be a bitch for a blind person, so I'm thinking adding a control surface will make it easier on me. Unfortunately, at this time, I can't afford one of the high end cs like the Tascam, Mackie etc., so I'm wondering if any one here has used anything like the Behringer BCF2000, Evolution UC33e, or the JL Cooper CS32 MiniDesk, or if there's a different control surface that I'm missing out on?
Click to expand...

I use a Tascam Us-428 and they only run about $300, but you can also get it in a smaller version, the US-224, for $200. I have both and i got both of them for almost 50% off of the retail price. They work very well, especially the US-428, since the US-224 has to run in emulation mode of the bigger one making you miss out on access to 4 of the faders.
 
MrBoogie said:
That person in the older thread must not be very resourceful. I got a BCF2000 several months ago, and after a [very] little bit of internet research, I found that you need to use it in the Mackie Emulation Mode. Once I did that, it worked flawlessly. Almost too simple.....no difficulty at all.

It has worked fine for me, but I've found that I actually don't use it much; even though I came from the analog world using a mixer and a reel to reel, and 4-tracks before that... :confused: I guess i just find drawing volume envelopes and clicking on virtual faders more to my liking.

I'm sure that I would probably, or should I say most likely, use one a great deal. That would be the point of getting one. Again, screen readers have problems recognizing a great deal of the graphics found in most audio based programs. It would just make it a lot easier using real knobsd and faders instead of trying to use a virtual mouse to operate with.



"most screen readers ... has problems with Java"???? No Java problems here with Windows or Linux machines. What problems do you have?
Click to expand...

Well, the screen reader I use is Window Eyes, and to-date it does not work with java based programs at all. It doesn't even recognize that there is even a program running.


After reading more and more on the bcf I think with a little sited help, getting it set up, that it would work fine for me.

Thanks
 
That person in the older thread must not be very resourceful. I got a BCF2000 several months ago, and after a [very] little bit of internet research, I found that you need to use it in the Mackie Emulation Mode. Once I did that, it worked flawlessly. Almost too simple.....no difficulty at all.
Click to expand...

Someone without an internet connection would probably be less fortunate, because it just won't work right away. Nowhere in the manuals or boxes is the so-called "emulation mode" mentioned.

In fact, I don't think the BCF even HAS emulation mode out-the-box. One would have to update the BCF's firmware, and that requires the internet.

You ARE correct though; all it took was a few installs and a simple mode change on the BCF hardware, but all this information comes from not-so-user-friendly documentation that has to be downloaded from the internet.

Chipster, I recommend the Behringer BCF2000 for its features VS price. Don't worry about the setup part. Just go to www.behringer.com, find the BCF2000 product page, and update the BCF2000's firmware drivers to the latest.

Since you are using Sonar, you don't even have to bother with presets. Set the BCF2000 to "Mackie Emulation Mode", set Sonar to use a "Mackie Control" control surface, and you're good to go.

The BCF2000 update driver even comes with PDF documents detailing what button does what function for the emulation modes.

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate condition. Good luck with setting up your home studio.
 
Nash, one of the problems with people these days is that if something isn't plug-n-play or doesn't work immediately out of the box, then they label it as difficult. This just isn't true, though. When you were a kid, didn't you ever get any toys that needed some assembly? Or toys in which their sole purpose was to build something? Simple stuff really. Someone involved with audio production should hopefully be a little more capable. In fact, I've found most people are capable, but just not willing to put the effort. Just look around this bbs and you'll see tons of threads just this year alone of people who obviously didn't put in any effort to find the information they need.

I think it's safe to assume someone posting on these forums has an internet connection. Check that thread out and decide for yourself.

Also, while I remember doing a firmware upgrade, I'm pretty sure it wasn't needed to enable Mackie Emulation Mode. It was for something else. I believe there may have been a bug fix, or maybe just added functionality....but the original BCF2000 did in fact have Mackie Emulation out of the box; mine sure did! (Not that it matters as this wasn't even my point.)

Funny, I used to be the one defending people who come to the bbs and ask questions even though the answer is in a post 2 or 3 threads down, especially newbs. But now I'm starting to feel the same frustration others are feeling knowing how many people would rather just let someone else do the work rather than spend 2 or 3 minutes doing a simple search. My Grandpa would call this lazy. :eek:

One more thing, as far as not-so-user-friendly documentation....heheh!! The BCF2000 manual is actually pretty good. It simply doesn't have specific step-by-step instructions to make it work with Sonar. That doesn't make it not user friendly. In that case, almost no manual is user friendly...at least no manual for hardware or software that I've ever owned, (except the Tranzport).
 
MrBoogie, I see where you're getting at, but for my situation, it's not convenient as I do not have an internet connection at my recording studio (and am very glad I don't - I don't have to bother with online security hazards).

Getting on the internet would mean driving back home, or running to the internet cafe which is like 8 blocks away to find whatever information I need. If I get on the internet without enough information, that means I have to run back to the studio, gather the missing information, and rush back home/internet cafe.

Imagine doing that repeatedly just to get a piece of hardware to work!

The manual does not mention the emulation modes at all. Even if the hardware was capable of emulation mode out the box, there's absolutely no way to find out it's even there.
 
NashBackslash said:
Someone without an internet connection would probably be less fortunate, because it just won't work right away. Nowhere in the manuals or boxes is the so-called "emulation mode" mentioned.

In fact, I don't think the BCF even HAS emulation mode out-the-box. One would have to update the BCF's firmware, and that requires the internet.

You ARE correct though; all it took was a few installs and a simple mode change on the BCF hardware, but all this information comes from not-so-user-friendly documentation that has to be downloaded from the internet.

Chipster, I recommend the Behringer BCF2000 for its features VS price. Don't worry about the setup part. Just go to www.behringer.com, find the BCF2000 product page, and update the BCF2000's firmware drivers to the latest.

Since you are using Sonar, you don't even have to bother with presets. Set the BCF2000 to "Mackie Emulation Mode", set Sonar to use a "Mackie Control" control surface, and you're good to go.

The BCF2000 update driver even comes with PDF documents detailing what button does what function for the emulation modes.

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate condition. Good luck with setting up your home studio.
Click to expand...


Thanks. I got the BCF2000, and I think I'm going to love it. I went to the website and downloaded all the new drivers and firmware. However, when I tried updating the unit I keep getting the message that "Cannot find midi device." I've got a friend of mine helping me set the whole thing up, and we set the BCF to U1 mode, like the getting started guide says do, but should we have upgraded the system before setting it any mode at all? I can't wait to get this thing set up and programed, it is really going to make my life working with sonar a lot easier. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and forsight.
 
I've managed to get the bcf2000 working, but only on the first 8 tracks of my projects. Can anyone tell me how I can shift 8 tracks over? Surely this is possible. Don't tell me I'll have to have another one just to control 16 tracks. :confused:
 
Hi Chipster, sorry for not replying; I have been busy and haven't been on the internet for a while.

Firstly, how are you connecting your BCF2000 the computer? Are you using USB, or through a MIDI port?

If you are using USB:

You already have the mode correct (U1). Hmmm, let me think for a sec... oh, that's right, you're using Sonar. Have you set the BCF2000 hardware to Mackie Emulation Sonar mode? I can't tell you exactly how to do so (because I forgot), but go back to the Behringer website, and look for a documentation named "Emulation Modes" or something to that effect. To put it simply; it involves you turning the BCF off, then holding down a certain button on the hardware while turning the unit on again.

You want to set the BCF to "Mackie Emulation for Sonar". When done correctly, the hardware should display "|¯|CSo" on the LCD screen.

Once you are in Mackie Emulation for Sonar mode, you only need to press the
Preset <- and -> buttons to change banks, for projects with more than 8 tracks. To help you visualize the tracks you are editing even easier; go to the Behringer site and download the utility called "BCFView". This utility draws a display on screen that shows lots of information like track names and stuff. It integrates with Sonar perfectly.

Give it a try. Good luck! Feel free to post any more questions if you still can't get it to work.
 
NashBackslash said:
Hi Chipster, sorry for not replying; I have been busy and haven't been on the internet for a while.

Firstly, how are you connecting your BCF2000 the computer? Are you using USB, or through a MIDI port?

If you are using USB:

You already have the mode correct (U1). Hmmm, let me think for a sec... oh, that's right, you're using Sonar. Have you set the BCF2000 hardware to Mackie Emulation Sonar mode? I can't tell you exactly how to do so (because I forgot), but go back to the Behringer website, and look for a documentation named "Emulation Modes" or something to that effect. To put it simply; it involves you turning the BCF off, then holding down a certain button on the hardware while turning the unit on again.

You want to set the BCF to "Mackie Emulation for Sonar". When done correctly, the hardware should display "|¯|CSo" on the LCD screen.

Once you are in Mackie Emulation for Sonar mode, you only need to press the
Preset <- and -> buttons to change banks, for projects with more than 8 tracks. To help you visualize the tracks you are editing even easier; go to the Behringer site and download the utility called "BCFView". This utility draws a display on screen that shows lots of information like track names and stuff. It integrates with Sonar perfectly.

Give it a try. Good luck! Feel free to post any more questions if you still can't get it to work.
Click to expand...


Hi Nash,
I've got it working. I've got it set to (U1,) connected via USB, and have upgraded the firmware to V1.10, have installed the BCF2000 midi driver v1.1.1.1, set the BCF2000 to MCSO mode, and have selected (Mackie Control) from the Control Surface dialog in Sonar. I also downloaded the Sonar template file from the Behringer website and have installed it. At first I couldn't get it to work because the documentation said to set the Control Surface dialog, in Sonar, to (Cakewalk Generic Control,) but when I did I could never get it to work. Not untill I read one of your post that I realize it needed to be set to (Mackie Control.) Once I set it to that it works perfectly. I've installed the BCFView utility, but it is written in Java, and my screen reader doesn't even recognize it, so it is really no help to me. I'll try to get a sighted friend back over here in the next couple of days, and maybe they can see what BCFView is displaying, so I can make a chart of it in Braille. All and all however, this a great little unit, and it's going to make my life a whole lot easier. I can't wait till I learn how to assign my own functions to it, and really make the BCF my own. Thanks for all yours, MrBoogie, and lfo's help on this. :)
 
Glad I was able to help you. Enjoy your BCF. Happy recording!

PS. Sorry if this question sounds offensive. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I was just wondering... are you completely blind? As in, you can't see at all? Total pitch black?

Or is your eye sight very blurry.

Sorry again for asking. :) I don't have any blind friends in real life, so I was just wondering what it's like to be blind.
 
NashBackslash said:
Glad I was able to help you. Enjoy your BCF. Happy recording!

PS. Sorry if this question sounds offensive. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I was just wondering... are you completely blind? As in, you can't see at all? Total pitch black?

Or is your eye sight very blurry.

Sorry again for asking. :) I don't have any blind friends in real life, so I was just wondering what it's like to be blind.
Click to expand...


I'm goinb to love it. I've not even begin to get the power out of it, and it has already made my life easier. I went back and read another one of your post, and see where I didn't even need to install the Sonar template. That could explain why the lower button does not solo my tracks. I'm going to try and re-install the OS again and see if that will delete the current preset and set it back to factory defaults. Thanks again.

Yep, totally blind, and no I don't find it offensive. I was blinded a few years ago when I was shot from the chest up with Rat Shot from a 22rifle. Enough of the pellets went in both eyes to do the job. I don't know if I would say pitch black, as there's always seemed to be some sort of internal light/coloring. I'm lucky in the aspect that I have seen before and can picture what things look like, so that may explain why I wouldn't call it pitch black. As with anything else, there's good and bad to it, and that's an entire story that doesn't belong in these forums. I wouldn't recomend it for anyone, but its been a good life for me. Of course that's not to say if the "Big Man Upstairs" came along and asked if I wanted my sight back I'd say, "No thanks," but I've had the pleasure of experiencing things in a way I would never had, and never did, before. And when you think about the fact that I was only 5ft. 11in. from the end of the gun barrel, I'm damn lucky to be here. The doctors told my family, the night it happened, to go ahead a make arrangements that I wouldn't make it till morning. Well that was several years ago, and I'm still hanging in. I have a beautiful wife that loves me, a smart and successful son, and I still wake up on the green side of the grass every morning, , so life's good.
 
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