control room window

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mu5ik16

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hey there,

im pretty crazy new to all this. i was wondering if anyone could suggest a solution for a window between my control and tracking rooms thats not infinitely expensive.

plexi glass? home depot?
prefabricated? special order?

im not sure where to look. im building a studio in my basement, so once i know what the window is going to be i will draft my plans for the surrounding wall.

thankie!
 
2 or 3 sheets of regular old plate glass from the hardware store isn't too expensive. They'll usually cut it for your for free. Add some 1" square molding to keep the glass in place, 2x4's for the frame, a couple of tubes of silicon sealer, and trim molding for the outside of the window and you're in business.

Not being an extremely handy guy myself, this turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. Of all the things I've screwed up in my studio, this DIY project went pretty smoothly.
 
Seanmorse79 said:
2 or 3 sheets of regular old plate glass from the hardware store isn't too expensive. They'll usually cut it for your for free. Add some 1" square molding to keep the glass in place, 2x4's for the frame, a couple of tubes of silicon sealer, and trim molding for the outside of the window and you're in business.

Not being an extremely handy guy myself, this turned out to be easier than I thought it would be. Of all the things I've screwed up in my studio, this DIY project went pretty smoothly.
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Not 3!! 2 decoupled from each other and spaced as far apart as possible, all sealed with silicon, will do fine.
 
i would suggest figuring out what size you want and then getting an insullated glass unit made(thermopane). these are what are commonly found on most houses from the last 20-30 years. it is usually 1/8" glass, a metal spacer, and 1/8" glass all glued together as one unit. the overall thickness can be made in nearly any size, i would suggest 5/8"-1".

i am the operations manager at a glass shop, and i know how much these things cost. you could probably get one(depending on where you live) made for about $50-100, also depending on which size you go to.

you just need to frame the opening, and you could hold it in with quarter round. put the quarter round trim in the opening, apply silicone to the trim, then put the glass unit in. after that simply put more quarter round on the other side.

it is much better than using two peices of quarter inch thick peices of plate glass, believe me. plus it acts as an insulator, not only for sound, but also for temperature.

do the research form local glass shops and compare prices, but if you are building out a room for a control room already, you should just spend a couple extra bucks and get something that will be better.

they can also make the units with three panes of glass instead of two, this helps insulate the sound better.

where do you live? maybe i can help you out on getting something.


anyways, thats my two cents:D
 
liv_rong said:
i would suggest figuring out what size you want and then getting an insullated glass unit made(thermopane). these are what are commonly found on most houses from the last 20-30 years. it is usually 1/8" glass, a metal spacer, and 1/8" glass all glued together as one unit. the overall thickness can be made in nearly any size, i would suggest 5/8"-1".

i am the operations manager at a glass shop, and i know how much these things cost. you could probably get one(depending on where you live) made for about $50-100, also depending on which size you go to.
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Liv,

you might know the commercial window business - but what you don't know about isolating window assemblies could fill a book....... in fact - quite a few books....... and it does.....

to begin with - you have to understand the construction of the wall assembly to even begin to determine what the glass has to be.

If dealing with double walls - then each wall aseembly has to receive it's own glass in order to maintain the isolation offered by individual frames.

Next - the glass has to equal at the least the mass of the wall covering - for example - if you have 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on your wall frame (about 5.25 psf of mass)- then a single piece of 3/8" annealed (4.92 pcf of mass) would be a little light - making the glass the weak point of the wall -

So best to install then(for wall surface A) a piece of 1/2" annealed.

Now - the critical frequency for that piece of 1/2" plate is about 1200 Hz....... and it we use another pievce identical to it - then any sound in the 1200 Hz range is going to pass through it easily.........

so for the 2nd piece of glass we would typically use a piece of 3/4" annealed - with a center frequexy of about 800Hz.......... thus helping to maintain the isolation even more.

BTW - annealed glass is not the best choise for isolation - tempered is better - and laminated is best - this because the layer of laminate tends to damp the 2 pieces of glass adheared to it........

I hope this helped you to understand a bit more...........

And 3 panel assemblies are not the best use of mass - moving that same mass from the inside to the outside - thus increasing the outer mass in whole is always a gain in sound isolation over a 3 leaf system...... from a thermal point of view the multi layer is perfect - and the more layers the better........ but that isn't an acoustic reaction - just a thermal one..........

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Rod Gervais said:
Liv,

you might know the commercial window business - but what you don't know about isolating window assemblies could fill a book....... in fact - quite a few books....... and it does.....

to begin with - you have to understand the construction of the wall assembly to even begin to determine what the glass has to be.

If dealing with double walls - then each wall aseembly has to receive it's own glass in order to maintain the isolation offered by individual frames.

Next - the glass has to equal at the least the mass of the wall covering - for example - if you have 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on your wall frame (about 5.25 psf of mass)- then a single piece of 3/8" annealed (4.92 pcf of mass) would be a little light - making the glass the weak point of the wall -

So best to install then(for wall surface A) a piece of 1/2" annealed.

Now - the critical frequency for that piece of 1/2" plate is about 1200 Hz....... and it we use another pievce identical to it - then any sound in the 1200 Hz range is going to pass through it easily.........

so for the 2nd piece of glass we would typically use a piece of 3/4" annealed - with a center frequexy of about 800Hz.......... thus helping to maintain the isolation even more.

BTW - annealed glass is not the best choise for isolation - tempered is better - and laminated is best - this because the layer of laminate tends to damp the 2 pieces of glass adheared to it........

I hope this helped you to understand a bit more...........

And 3 panel assemblies are not the best use of mass - moving that same mass from the inside to the outside - thus increasing the outer mass in whole is always a gain in sound isolation over a 3 leaf system...... from a thermal point of view the multi layer is perfect - and the more layers the better........ but that isn't an acoustic reaction - just a thermal one..........

Sincerely,

Rod
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Dude, this is home recording, not commercial recording. lighten up a bit :rolleyes: ;)
 
"Dude, this is home recording, not commercial recording. lighten up a bit"

You're right, it's MUCH better that people follow BAD advice and spend their hard-earned cash on things that won't work worth a crap...

Sheesh... Steve
 
Carter,

the poster posted information that would not work - information that was incorrect on the face of it........

Sound isolation does not have one set of calculations for commercial work and another for home studios.........

It all works exactly the same...............

Thus - the correct response to the original poster should have been........

If you do not care about isolating your control room from your tracking room then it doesn't really matter what you do and it can be as cheap as you want it to be.

Sincerely,

Rod
 
i dont understand how an insulated glass unit wouldnt work. the glass thickness could be anything. he never said anyhting about double walls either. 1/2"? modern curtain walls on skyscrapers dont even have 1/2" thick glass. ive been in studios with seperate rooms, and all that was isolating it were patio doors, tempered thermopanes. they seemed to do the trick just fine.

using an i.g. would not be "worth crap", it would work. there are many different factors for building an i.g, and i would assume that 1/4' lami over 1/4 lami would work fine, and i bet it would cost less than a 1/2' peice of glass.

theremopanes are NOT just barriers for the elements, this is a fact.
 
disclaimer

:Dok, so ive done some more research on the subject, including calling two of the country largest architectural glass manufacturers/distributors.

first, i talked to the owner of my work, he told me that a year and a half ago we actually did one of these. he said the solution that the customer and us came up with was two lites of 3/8" lami spaced apart 5/8". the lami was installed using 1/4" rubber blocks to sepaerat it from the wood, and we used 1/8" double sided foam tape to seal the lites. this worked perfectly.

so as it turns out i was wrong about the 1/4" lami over 1/4' lami i.g. idea.

the first company i talked to said that 3/8" lami on both sides of an i.g unit would work, or that a triple glazzed i.g w/ 1/4" lami would work. the second company i am still waiting to hear back from.

i also found ratting charts specifying sound decibal deadening in many different frequencies and many different glazzing applications, if you are interested in seeing any of them let me know. these also prove that a standard thermopane(not laminated or tempered) does reduce the sound from getting through, although it does not completely stop it.

i was assuming that the original poster of the thread was not looking into building a 100% sound proof control room, and thought he was looking into something that would help[ to isolate the sound more than just a peice of d.s.

but i have found that i was wrong in my original post, there i said it hahaha.
sorry i posted incorrect suggestions, but i was not too far off at least, but still worng non the less.

anyways, if anyone wants to see some specifications on some glass elt me know, otherwise, that is all for now. ok bye
 
Liv,

That's great for most residential needs........ but, when it comes to studios it's a different world......

When you begin talking construction that is going to give you STC ratings in walls of the high 60's to 70's (and I talk STC here only because of the peoples familiarity with the term - and not because it effectively represents isolation in the world of music studios) then the ONLY way to acheive parity between the wall and glass opening is to go way beyond anything you describe here.

If You take a glass company (manufacturer) like Solutia, INc. (the manufacturers of Saflex laminated glass) Even with 1/2" lami 1/2" air space 1/2" lami - you only acheive an stc rating of 45.....

See for yourself:

http://www.viracon.com/downloads/resources/SaflexACacousticNov04.pdf

There is a reason that a 4 x 3 iso window from a company like Overly runs around 3 grand a pop........

IN order to make a window effective for studio use you need to buildthe equivilent of these:

glazing is 3/4" lami over an average 3 1/2" air space(2 at bottom - 5" at top) over 1/2" lami.

STC is 55 - but tested TL values are:

Transmission Loss in dB/Hertz - 1/3 Octave Bands
100 125 160 200 250 315 400 500 630 800 1000 1250 1600 2000 2500 3150 4000 5000
41....40...41..42..43...46..50...51...53...56.....57.....58.....60...62....66.....68....70....71

Those are pretty decent numbers below 400hZ - which is always the big challenge.

See their info here:

http://www.overly.com/door/index.cfm?curPage=products&model=5592278

Sincerely,

Rod

(BTW - I used to own a glass company and made my own custom insulated units - so I have no small experince with your world).
 
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good info.

like i said, i didnt think he was looking for the optimal sound barrier, and i was deffinetely wrong. and i will also admit i am fairly new to the glazing worl, i am actually a carpenter who kind of fell into this gig.

sorry agin folks:o
 
knightfly said:
"Dude, this is home recording, not commercial recording. lighten up a bit"

You're right, it's MUCH better that people follow BAD advice and spend their hard-earned cash on things that won't work worth a crap...

Sheesh... Steve
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Oh boy, here we go. I didnt say it was bad information bunghole, I meant that the OP will not understand how complex the formula's are. Rod gave very good information, Thanks Rod, I was thinking of a simplified version and then here you come being the same old smart ass you have always been :rolleyes:
 
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