CONTROL Lo end

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ecktronic

ecktronic

Mixing and Mastering.
How do you control the lo end when mastering so that you get a constant bass sound that never muffles or overpowers the mix?
I am thinking the solution may be heavy compression. Am i wrong?
Any feedback would be great as this is just one more of my many problems when mastering.
 
ecktronic said:
How do you control the lo end when mastering so that you get a constant bass sound that never muffles or overpowers the mix?
I am thinking the solution may be heavy compression. Am i wrong?
Any feedback would be great as this is just one more of my many problems when mastering.


Ummm, mix it properly???? I don't know, just guessing.
 
ecktronic said:
How do you control the lo end when mastering so that you get a constant bass sound that never muffles or overpowers the mix?
I am thinking the solution may be heavy compression. Am i wrong?
Any feedback would be great as this is just one more of my many problems when mastering.

In general, I am not a fan of multiband compressors for whole mixes, but that may be what you need in this case. It will compress the bass frequencies separate from the others.
 
Sounds to me like a mix problem and not a mastering problem. Go back to the mix and compress the hell out of the bass guitar. Something in the neighborhood of 8:1 ratio, 4 db gain reduction, quick (3ms) attack and long (3000) ms release. The tempo of the song (and a million other variables) change all of that, but that's the general idea for smoothing out a bass.
 
Low end can build up quickly in a mix, try high passing some instruments that don't need the super low end like guitars, even sometimes bass, vocals and maybe snare or some drum tracks.
 
It aint a problem at the mix, I compressed the bass to hell and back. Its the LO END, not the bass. I took most of the lo end from the instruments that dont need it and also the bass guitar.
What i am doing is boosting the LO end (kik drum, bass guitar) so it has depth. I feel that alot of commercial rock cds these days dont have enough lo end in them. At the end of the day you want a powerfull constant lo end , a shimmering hi end, and a slightly curvy midd range.
Here is a sample of the song, which the lo end is now fixed.

SIT BACK
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/seratonescotlandmusic.htm
 
i used to have this problem often. What I started to do and has worked for me very well is give just about everything except bass guitar and the bass drum a nice big low cut and then on the final mix cut everything below 30 and another small cut (couple db's) below 60
 
It sounds like everyone thinks compression is the answer to low end. I very rarely use compression to "tame the low end". In fact, more often I use it to create a more explosive low end. For me, control the frequency spectrum is done by manipulating those troublesome frequencies. This means proper EQ'ing and level setting. If your bass guitar rumbles too much, the problem may not actually be with the bass itself. It could be guitars getting down too low so as a result the bass guitar gets pumped up. If you leave room for the bass by keeping the guitars, vocals etc... out of that low area, all of a sudden you get that low end punch back without having to jack the crap out of other channels which results in a ball of mud. With proper panning, EQ'ing, and output volume balancing, compression should not be a necessity. I guess I am just from the school that compression is more for tonal shaping and not so much for dynamic control. I try and leave dynamic control first to the musician, second to mic placement and selection, and third to careful tracking. I do however often use a compressor during mixdown on lead vocals to help reduce the dynamic range a little just so the vocal is a little easier to keep out front. Personally, I would never use more than a 3:1 ratio on bass guitar unless I was really after squashing the whole track for tonal purposes. High compression ratios on low frequencies can really start to pump things alot, and unless you are using some pretty nice outboard comps, can often result in an extreme loss of clarity in the higher frequency ranges. Just my 2 cents:)
 
The song is called SIT BACK.
Cheers everyone. I went back to the studio and really listened out for the lo rumbles and there were some present here and there, so i took alot of lo end from the bass guitar (and a little more from the guitars) which i will boost at the mastering stage to bring out the kik and bass even more. Im pretty happy with the results i am acheiving, but it has taken me around 3 attempts at finalising the mix, and another 3 or 4 attempts at getting used to mastering. Every time i mix or master, i know i am getting better. Im always learning either by practical info or ear training.
 
that song sounds realy over compressed to me... especialy in the heavier parts... go easy on compression...
 
ecktronic said:
The song is called SIT BACK.

that's funny, i thought that was what we had to do : sit back and listen. :D

i like the song, remindes me of some of that 80's-90's funk-metal-hip-hop fusion.
 
Cheers man. It is quite a strange mix init. Funk bass with metal guitars!

Username bob, i didnt add any compression to it at the mastering stage, so i dont know what you mean by it being over compressed!! I did compress the drums quite a bit so as to control their dynamics, bass guitar compressed a few dbs at ratio of 4 and guitars very slightly compressed to tame any stray dynamics. And of course the vocals were compressed. By over compressed, what sends you to that conclusion?
 
Bass is really difficult to understand on compression. The thing you need to remember that the bass frequencies have very slow attacks, and the problem frequencies are actually right after the attack. Kind of like vocals.

This is why i completely disagree with the tip on a 3 milisecond attack and 3000 release. Your taking out the only bit of attack it has. 3000 milliseconds is 3 seconds. I guess if the notes were 3 seconds long. I guess if you wanted a bass that was incredibly sqwashed with not dynamic at all. Just remember your looking to 'control' the problem areas not kill it.

I find it works better with long attacks and fast releases. The attack will determine how much punch you want each not to have. The release will just depend on how long the problem area is after the attack. So lets say around 80 millisecond attack. Kinda play with 50-120 milliseconds i guess. It will really just depend on how hard you want the notes to pump. Then lets say after this it hits the problem area of this slewed out round hump. You basically just want enough time on there to squash that down. But you dont want it to sustain to the end of the note, but to meet i half way i guess you could say. So lets say the hump is about 180 milliseconds long. I would put the release say around 100-120 milliseconds. With this way, you dont need to use much of a ratio or gain deduction. Just enough to get that hump down. Say 3:1 to 4:1 with 3-5 decibal gain reduction.

What this does. Allows the attack to come through so you still have definition of it. After the attack it grabs the problem area round sustain and compresses it down a few decibals. Then as the problem area starts to calm down and the note starts to fade, the compressor comes out gently letting the end of the note to be the same volume as the hump and lets it naturally fade out. You will get a big pumping effect if you higher the ratio and put more gain reduction. But becarefull because you could get unwanted effects. A strong attack, after including a major drop of volum then fades into a louder signal out the tail when the compressor releases. Makes a good pumping effect but not always desired.

This is using the compressor for dynamic control and not for tone shaping. You control only the problem area.

Hopefully that will help out a bit. Its kinda hard to nail the right attacks and releases to make it work right. And its definately harder when you cant hear what its doing in general. But those are good starters.

Danny
 
Cheers danny, good info on release times. Never could really grasp release times too well. And it is difficult to do when you dont hear a noticeable difference.
 
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