contemplating a POD or J over the built in COSM of BR-8

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katmandude

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OK I have never played a POD or J station. I have 2 amps I use and love and can mic them. But for recordgin late at night and not wanting to awake folks, I lkike that I can plug direct into the BR-8. I have messed around with the CSOM effects a little, and done some customizing. If I plug into a TUbe king or a Mic Pre before the BR-8 it makes the COSM sound even warmer and better.

So how much better would it all sound if I just got a POD or J station. Does the Br-8 COSM come even close?

I am mostly looking for classic amp sounds. a clean Fender, Rockin Vox ROcking Marhsal types of tones.
 
IMHO, I've A/B'ed the POD with the on board COSM on the VS-880 and I prefer the COSM (when used with an external boost like you mention). One of my favorite combinations is my SansAmp GT2 with a Marshall model. Nice mid saturation for your "rockin Marshall" tone.
 
I have a J-station and a Roland 1880. The on board effects are probably the same.The only disadvantage to using the J-staion is that the sound must either be recorded to tape (or disk) in your case, or used as a send return loop.When using as send return the j-staion colors the sound much more than it should.I wouldn't trade my J-station for any thing nor would I trade my on board effects.Use both if possible for different applications.

Monty Neese,
 
I use a KORG AX1000G and I much prefer it over the onboard COSM in the BR-8. While some of the patches are "acceptable" I find that my Korg is far superior. I find the on board COSM to drop in and out..... it seems to have little defects or drop outs that irritate me. Initially I like some of the sounds but when I listen closely I hear little defects in the sound and I don't have that problem with the Korg.
 
POD

Hi!

I have a Roland VS1680 (with 2 effect cards), a Roland 840EX and a POD2.0 (2.2). The 840EX is probably closest to the BR-8 (It has a Guitar Multi1 & 2 and a Bass multi too I think...) I can't remember right now... I have used the 1680 for one year now, the 840EX for 1 year (before I got the 1680) and the POD for 2 month. It's best to say that I have never owned a real guitar amp, so I am probably not the one to say which sounds the most natural. But I like the POD sound best. I think it's more distinct. You can mix it with a lower volume and still hear it good. And it's more convenient to tweek around with real knobs instead of inside the VS. The POD also gives much less humming and noise. I have heard people complaining about the PODs high noise, but there's almost nothing at my place. Maybe because I use balanced cables. But there is more noise if you use the POD as an external effect from the VS aux compared to if you plug the guitar directly into the POD. And talking about that... To get the best result using the POD as an external effect, you should have the input signal to the POD as high as possible (without having the CLIP lamp blink)... But when you have the guitar directly into the POD, the input signal is much lower. This means that the same patches sound very different so you have to adjust the GAIN button if you want to use the same patch when used as external effect vs. directly. This is a bit disturbing. The VS840EX has an acoustic guitar simulator that I sometimes use... And the VS840EX's guitar effects are easier to use and maybe sounds a bit better that the VS1680's effects... They should not, but I think they sound a bit more soft. And, on the VS1680, you have to use 2 effects (1 guitar multi and 1 amp simulation) to get the same thing as one effect on the VS840EX. The VS840EX effects are also much easier to find compared to the VS1680 as you on the 840 first chose effect algorithm, then patch. On the 1680, all pacthes are listed in one long list... One last thing.... The Bass simulator in the 840EX is unusable. When I first bought the 840EX I thought I could use it, but that simulator is just a toy...

That's what I had to say about the guitar effects on these machines.... I hope it can help...

Kind Regards,
Anders Persson
http://mp3.com/boray
 
First time post...here. Hi Rudd. You should know me from G.com.

Anyway, I've tried some different guitar effects processors and honestly, most of those effects are the same on the BR-8 with the exception of a few. To me, the sound quality was the same....or real close . I tried the Korg AX15000G, the Boss GT-3 and the Boss GT-5 and a couple others.

I do like the COSM effects and use them on the BR-8.
I think the real key here is how you EQ your sound and eventually mix it ( ie: reverb, chorus, delay, panning, etc).

I've spent a lot of time trying to "mix" a good sound once I found it and the features of the BR-8 work well for my applications.

hey, that's just me though. Everyones different.

I'm sure I'll continue to look for some effects but my point is the BR-8 COSM effects are damn good. try some more EQ'ing in the mix and see if that doesn't improve your sound.

Good Luck.

:)

Telegib.
 
Hey Telegib.... welcome to the BR-8 forum. This seems to be the best place around that I can find for info on the BR-8. There are a few guys here who use them regularly and have lots of good tips and advice.

I pretty much agree with you. The COSM effects are pretty good. There's a certain crunch rhythm setting that I really like and can't quite duplicate on my AX1000G. They are very decent effects and are pretty useful, overall though I still prefer using my outboard effects units..... I'm going to be trying to mess with the COSM effects more, just for variety's sake, I still find certain artifacts in the sound that make me crazy but I suppose with some clever mixing and EQing those can be minimized.

cheers,
Rudd
 
Hey Rudd,

Just for sake of fun and comparison....here's a couple of effects settings that I really like and use regulary on my BR-8....

These are in addition to my 2 amps( Fender 2X12 and Marshall 2X12 combo's) unfortunately,most of my recording is done between 10:00PM and 2:00AM so I need the benefits of silent direct recording through headphones...........

I'll use the "JC Clean" effect for clean rythmn guitars as a foundation rythmn . it also gives me a great "Clapton" style lead sound when used with my strat and I'll set my pick-up selector to the 2nd position... ya know....that classic Clapton strat sound.

"hard Driv'in" comes closest to a SRV style lead with the proper tweaking in EQ's and Chorus effects.

"delayed Lead" is a great lead guitar effect with sustain and wining power.

"Texas Blues" is a great rythmn effect...for me too...I have a hard time playing good lead with this effect.

"Sweet Lead" is nice.....if our into heavy reverb and spacey lead.
I don't use it ......at least not yet.


I wish I had a bass guitar to do all my bass work but I don't so ....
I have found that the Bass simulator ( again ,I don't care for it but what'a poor boy to do?) effect of "Octave Bass" is good Bass sound......"Heavy Bass"is good too but requires some tweaking.

There's so much available in this BR but it takes time to become famiar with how these effects change sound just by changing your guitar and the pick-up selectors.....

Like I said above, I'm still looking for some effects outside of the BR-8 but haven't found'em yet....

Anyway, thought I'd share that with you and whoever else cares on this board........ Perhaps we can share some of our recording ideas and thoughts since we both own the same recorder ??

I'm interested in trying new things with it.....interested in hearing what you do with yours.......Thanks.


:)

Telegib.
 
Hey Rudd,

Just for sake of fun and comparison....here's a couple of effects settings that I really like and use regulary on my BR-8....

These are in addition to my 2 amps( Fender 2X12 and Marshall 2X12 combo's) unfortunately,most of my recording is done between 10:00PM and 2:00AM so I need the benefits of silent direct recording through headphones...........

I'll use the "JC Clean" effect for clean rythmn guitars as a foundation rythmn . it also gives me a great "Clapton" style lead sound when used with my strat and I'll set my pick-up selector to the 2nd position... ya know....that classic Clapton strat sound.

"hard Driv'in" comes closest to a SRV style lead with the proper tweaking in EQ's and Chorus effects.

"delayed Lead" is a great lead guitar effect with sustain and wining power.

"Texas Blues" is a great rythmn effect...for me too...I have a hard time playing good lead with this effect.

"Sweet Lead" is nice.....if our into heavy reverb and spacey lead.
I don't use it ......at least not yet.


I wish I had a bass guitar to do all my bass work but I don't so ....
I have found that the Bass simulator ( again ,I don't care for it but what'a poor boy to do?) effect of "Octave Bass" is good Bass sound......"Heavy Bass"is good too but requires some tweaking.

There's so much available in this BR but it takes time to become famiar with how these effects change sound just by changing your guitar and the pick-up selectors.....

Like I said above, I'm still looking for some effects outside of the BR-8 but haven't found'em yet....

Anyway, thought I'd share that with you and whoever else cares on this board........ Perhaps we can share some of our recording ideas and thoughts since we both own the same recorder ??

I'm interested in trying new things with it.....interested in hearing what you do with yours.......Thanks.


:)

Telegib.
 
Absolutely.... thanks for the tips and I'll pass mine on too....

I can't remember if we've discussed this before but I was having some serious problems with the headphone out's on my BR-8. I was getting distortion which I thought was being recorded but just turned out to be headphone amp problems within BR-8.

I was getting distortion from my headphones which was affecting the way I was making settings.
When I run my line outs to my computer speakers and use their headphone out I don't get distortion and I get a truer sense for what's being recorded. I don't know if you've run in to that problem but if you do a lot of "late night" recording like I do that might help your sound.

On the bass........ I finally broke down and bought myself a bass guitar. Best $350 I have spent in a long time. I bought a Dean IV. It plays and sounds great for recording.....
 
Rudd,

Yea, I know......the Bass will be my next purchase....it's becoming a necessity.....

I don't quite understand the distortion issues your experiencing...I don't currently use my computer at all for any type of recording or playback.....unfortunately. I have been keeping my eyes open for an inexpensive small mixer / PA system for myself but nothing yet. Everything I record now is all done through headphones untilI hear the final from a burned CD or cassette.

One thing I do is make sure my individual track levels are set just below "buzz limit" and the input sensory is backed off a bit too so I don't get distortion....that's where some creative Eq'ing comes in because I can "boost" or "diminish" some intensity from the instrument that way thus eliminating any buzz if necessary...but ideally I like to think that one of the most important things we do as recording enginners is carefully set our levels to eliminate any unnecessarry noise. It's a learning experience for me....seems to get better with each new recording.......hey, Im guess that's the name of the game....trial and error.......

OH well, I appreciate the insights and look forward to further discussions regarding our recording ventures....

:)

Telegib.
 
Cool...... I brought up the headphone issue because of what I was experiencing with the BR-8 as a stand-alone unit.

I found that I was getting "clipping" or "distortion" in my headphones before the record levels were showing that clipping or distortion. In other words, I could hear distortion but my meter's were telling me my record levels where fine and not too high. This lead me to back off my input levels or change my EQ setups which caused me to record weaker signal levels to avoid this distortion.

As it turned out, the distortion I was experiencing was from the headphone "amp" in the BR-8 and was NOT track distortion as I origially thought. After checking it out with other users I discovered that this was a problem that others were experiencing too. As it turned out, if I ran the "line-outs" to another device, like a mixer or computer speakers, this distortion went away. It seemed to be an inadequacy in the headphone amp portion of the BR-8 and that was quickly solved by NOT using the headphone outs from the BR-8 and running the line-outs to another device and then using headphones from that new device. Suddenly I was able to boost up my inputs and get a cleaner, meatier signal with no distortion. I thought I'd just mention it here in case you ran in to that problem.
 
Helpful Advice

Hi
I read the thread that you guys have been posting to and found some useful info. Thanks. I was having trouble with my BR-8 in that I am using a strat directly into the unit and have two powered computer speakers as monitors. I found that I couldnt use certain effects settings without getting some distortion through the speakers. Your advice on turning the volume down and adjusting the EQ settings was great though it almost opens too many possibilities. I will keep an eye open for further posts from you and hopefully I can help you out with a few things too.

See ya
Mick (Australia)
 
headphone problems

yeah I too had the headphone problems where it distorted easilky, but did record distroted. THe problem is the i built in headphone amp is not very good. I forgot I could turn the headphone volume down and then it would NOT distort. However, turning it down to UNdistorted levels was so low that it was not optimum levels for hearing what was being recorded well enough. ie: loss of bass especially.

I line out my BR-8 into my Aux input of my home stereo. (dont have $$ for real monitors yet) Then I plug my headphones into the headphone jack on the stereo reciever. and EQ the stereo as flat as possible so I dont color the sound too much. Now I can have acceptible levels in my cans.

Probably I shoudl invest in a good headphone amp, and that would solve the problem as well. Gto some beter Cans coming as well. just ordered them.

I also found I liked the COSm better in my headphones now. Before, when I didnt know why it was distorting in my phones (plugged direct to br-8 w/ volume up) I compensated by keeping the mic sensitivity levels down which resulted in lifeless flat recorded sounds. Now that I have figured it out, I get much better tones from the direct COSM. THat said I did pick up a Sansamp classic, which is a nice little unit. Got it used and it has some nice settings. A little easier to tweak than messing with the CSOM. I think uising both is good too. sometimes even mixing them.

Bass sounds. I dealt with the Bass Sim for a little while, and got better at using it over time, but still ahted the occasional wacky tone shift offtune that would happen. My wife picked me up a sale Dearmond Polot bass from MF for $99. if they still have em, and you are using bass sim, go ahead and get one. Best $99 i have spent. Not the bass sounds right.

anyhow loving this unit. wish I had more time to use it. Need to get a full song complete to upload soon.

later
 
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