console questions from a desk dummy...

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rcktdg

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Okay, A few months ago I was in and out of the studio building forum and found some excellent advice on getting my space together. Now that I've got it to the point that we are making some good music I am ready to move on to the next step: recording.

My goal is to have a nice project development room not a working business. It will be mostly for my private endeavors but I am a lucky man and things do seem to take interesting turns from time to time so I do not rule anything out.

I have been looking into all sorts of different boards and have arrived at a few options. First of all I am working with a budget of about $3500. With this money I need to get started. I am planning on two general modes of operation: Live to hard disk rehearsal recording and isolated drum/bass tracking with guitar and vocal overdubs.

I currently have enough mics to close mic all the drums and a couple of c1000's for overheads. I also have 4 57's and two 58's and access to some nice stuff for vocals if I really need it. I have a Layla and use sonar 2.2 to record on my computer. My drummer has a 1604 when I need it.

I am considering an Allen & Heath GL2200, a Mackie 24/8 or possibly a Soundcraft in the same range as the A&H. I realize the mackie is a recording console and the A&H is more multi function. The Mackie is more expensive and has more buses but I am drawn to the A&H because it sounds like it has a more interesting eq. I say "sounds" but I am going by user comments and reviews more than anything.

Are the preamps in the A&H good enough for what I want to do? I am not really trying to save money with the choice, it's just that I'm not really all that turned on by mackie stuff (I've read here and elsewhere that there are issues with the power supply). The board will be my primary source of mic pre's for awhile so I need something usable.

Am I being realistic? Musically things range from Paul Weller to Sheryl Crow. Mostly just electric guitar, bass, drums, vocals with some sprinkles of keys and harmonica.

Are there any suggestions beyond what I have discovered? I am including a boat load of cables in the budget so don't go spending all my money on a console because I need to hook the thing to everything else.

Thanks for reading my longwinded post.

Cheers, RD
 
Bump

I tried a cute name but I guess it was too gay.

Okay, I'm not a complete moron but I thought humility would be a good place to start. Any thoughts on the long-winded missive above. Thanks, RD
 
Hey...do you know that in A&H's designation numbers that GL indicates that it is a LIVE board.(thus the L)...most of its operations will be at -10 and will be unbalanced...a GS A&H will be made for studio and will be for the most part set to +4...i'm pretty sure you can change this in the GL series with an internal jumper.....the A&H will sound much better than a mackie but if you wanted to go another mile, i would up my budget and get a used soundcraft ghost.....oh yeah thats what i did!...no regrets...
 
I got a Ghost a few months ago and they are pretty sweet if you can swing the cash. There are some great deals on used 24 channel LE versions (no midi or automation). I've seen them for under $2k and even fully loaded (32/meter bridge/midi) they are around $3k.
 
Holy Moly, I had given up...

I was so used to watching my little question sink down the list that I was waiting for it slip to page two then I would regroup and try again.

Anyway, thanks.

In the time since I made the post I have been experimenting with a 1604 not as an alternative or consideration for my situation but to have some point of reference. I think it's noisy. With a full kit worth of microphones and the levels set there is noticable noise. I am still very inexperitenced but starting with a noise floor like that could really add up. It could be other things creating the noise but currently the only stuff between the mic and the speakers are the Mackie and a pretty clean amp.

I have been trying to ween myself from the romance I am experiencing about wanting an AH and to try to be more objective. A ghost would really be nice but that's streak and lobster on a strictly hamburger & fries budget. I know there are so many things I will need beyond the console that blowing the wad and going into dept this early would kill the project.

I think the most simple question I could use some guidance on is how can I get some good, usable mic pres in plentiful enough numbers to track a drum kit and a bass player. This is the minimum set up. With that I could do the above and overdub other parts or just stratigically mic the room for quick and dirty practice stuff. For awhile I could mix on the computer (yuck) but it would get the job done while I'm trying to find the right setup.

Thanks. RD
 
Your not going to get quiter than the mackie without spending a lot of cash. My Ghost with all the channels and busses up has a very obvious hiss to it. That is just the nature of mixers and the reason you want to run your signals as hot as possible and be carefull not to route through any more busses or auxes than is absolutely neccessary.

You can usually get a quieter noise floor out of a digital mixer but then you enter the whole debate as to which actually 'sounds' better. That in the end the most important part.

When using a mixer be sure to mute any unused channels and turn down any unused effects returns and that will cut down on any extra hiss. To really tell how much hiss is getting recorded try checking your tracks with some good headphones.
 
closer to fine

TexRoadkill,

Tonight I managed to get things set up to do some tests with the full band and I would call it a near total failure in that everything sounded like I had the worst phasing problem ever. Thin is to wide a word to describe the sound. After everyone had gone home I discovered that I had a a button pressed that was reintroducing the the entire mix into a bus that I was mixing the drums into. Lesson learned.

I kind of missed your post above my last. I could swing the dough for a real deal, key key piece of gear. I have not read one bad word about the Ghost console, I just considered them unattainable.

I have a friend who is trying to sell me his studio master but I know nothing about them. I am so leary about getting stuck with some boat anchor of a console.

Tomorrow I am going to go around Los Angeles and seek out some information on my challenge. If I run across a Ghost for the prices you mentioned I might come home a couple thousand dollars lighter. We'll see.

Cheers, RD
 
I've seen the light. It went on then off, then on, then off

then 1,0,1,0,1, then DM24

I have avoided the digital console choice because I really thought an analog console would be better. I thought it would be extremely difficult to make sense out of the controls. I thought a lot of things but today I sat with one and the manual for about an hour and it was way easier to figure out than I expected.

16 mic pre's, 32 channels, built in compression, automation, 8 buses, tons of configuration possibilities and in the $2k range.

I am so tempted at this point that I can see the future. If all this stuff is compatible with sonar 2 and my layla I will be set.

I might have to abandon the layla if I want more than 8 in/8 out. I think there is some kind of expansion module from echo but I would have to get an add on for the tascam too.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, RD
 
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