Confidence in your own stuff...

[Rokket]

I think *playing* other people's stuff helps sharpen your own style. I think it helps you get that other stuff out of your system.

Yep, that was my point. You learn from others first, then you become confident enough and establish your own identity.

 

[topolino]

for me, it's this shakey faith I'm forced to have in myself. First I get an idea, and everything's great; the idea is perfect because it exists only in theory. Then when I try to execute the idea, unforseen realities begin cropping up, and I become very intimate with my work---so much so that I totally lose perspective. I become sick of the work and think the idea was stupid in the first place.

The trick for me is to think good and hard about the idea, before I make a move to execute it. I try to iron it out and forsee as much of the technical realities which will present themselves. and most importantly, I get really excited about the idea and try to see how cool it is, so that I can generate an excitement which will carry me through all the nose-to-the-grindstone stuff.

 

[Rokket]

for me, it's this shakey faith I'm forced to have in myself. First I get an idea, and everything's great; the idea is perfect because it exists only in theory. Then when I try to execute the idea, unforseen realities begin cropping up, and I become very intimate with my work---so much so that I totally lose perspective. I become sick of the work and think the idea was stupid in the first place.

The trick for me is to think good and hard about the idea, before I make a move to execute it. I try to iron it out and forsee as much of the technical realities which will present themselves. and most importantly, I get really excited about the idea and try to see how cool it is, so that I can generate an excitement which will carry me through all the nose-to-the-grindstone stuff.

I think you can get pretty far if you pound it out while you still have the excitement for it. My own CD is still sitting at 5 songs that I like and one that I may shitcan for sanity reasons. I started it over a year ago, and went like hell on the first 4 songs. Then I lost it. I am still trying to get it back (the excitement), but I've learned a hell of a lot from this board and from trial and error, and now I too have become critical to a fault of my work, my abilities, and my songwriting skills. I have to work out my personal demons and get off my ass. The CD is for my mother and she ain't getting any younger waiting on something I thought would be done in a matter of a couple months...

 

[Louddog]

I read something a long time ago that John Lennon didn't like his own music, he never thought he got it right. I think it's the guys that think there stuff is great that don't evolve and grow as songwriters.

 

[glynb]

I read something a long time ago that John Lennon didn't like his own music, he never thought he got it right. I think it's the guys that think there stuff is great that don't evolve and grow as songwriters.

Well when you think how big a name he has and then look at his output, I think maybe he had a point (and i say that as a big Lennon/Beatles fan). I don't think he produced anything of much interest after his Imagine album, personaly and icremebr thinking at the time his comeback album in 1980 was rubbish..then he got shot and it becomes masterwork.

Anyway, with regard to songwroting I have self doubt all the time. But i plan to put out my own album this year come what may. i figure it is the best way to REALLY find out if my stuff is any good or not. You can ask a few friends, but they know you and they will not be brutal, so you can't really be sure if they are being kind or really like your tunes. By putting my album out for review by strangers I will know for sure what it's worth.

I think we amateurs (defintion: doing it for love not money) tend to be unconfident about our stuff because we are not signed, maybe not playing live, and this gives you an inferiority complex - ie it can't be any good because I'm not earning a living as a signed musician, which is not the case of course.

The leave it for a while and come back to it thing is the best advice, really is.
Sometimes it becomes immediately clear what the song needs extra, or that you have created a good song that needs no further tinkering (just you couldn't see that at the time).

 

[apl]

...the best way to REALLY find out if my stuff is any good or not.

How can we define, "good"? Lots of people like it? Like the liked Macarena and Achy Breaky Heart?

It's wierd, I've gotten a lot better feedback on Psycho Surfer than I expected, because I don't think it's very good at all.

 

[glynb]

How can we define, "good"? Lots of people like it? Like the liked Macarena and Achy Breaky Heart?

It's wierd, I've gotten a lot better feedback on Psycho Surfer than I expected, because I don't think it's very good at all.

Good point.
First thing is don't expect everyone to like your stuff. there are so many genres and sub genres that you'll never get everyone to agree on what's 'good'. That's a problem if for example most of your friends are into country, but you like to write Rap songs or whatever! It's pointless expecting a proper critique from people who don't 'get' your genre.

Second thing is putting it out to complete strangers, they don't HAVE to like it. I'll know if I get emails from people who heard my stuff that they like it and took the trouble to write to me then it must be 'good' ! if i hear nothing from anyone I'll know its either bland, or bad. that's the bottom line for me. In fact people bothering to write to me and say how sh*t my stuff is would be preferable to being ignored and having no feedback at all!

Thirdly. If I'm lucky enough to receive formal reviews from reviewer sites and magazines, and maybe gain some airplay, then I'll know my stuff is 'good'.

So you see, there are objective ways of knowing what's good and bad. Bad stuff gets ignored!! Good stuff gets a reaction (positive or negative).

Good pop music sells lots of units. Bad pop music fails to be a hit.
Good independently produced music gets reviewed and feedback, bad stuff gets ignored and not reviewed or played.

It's an exciting, but daunting prospect. Like standing naked in front of a group of the oppostie sex and seeing if you get applauded or laughed at!!

 

[Blink 182]

i feel you can only write music for people like yourself.

i feel there is always a better song in me. when i try and write complicated songs, i go and listen to my cd collection and there are 100 songs more complex and technically challenging. when i try and write simple songs, i hear 100 songs that are catchier and with better melodies. its frustrating. now i write a batch of songs in a certain style in one go, record them and move on to things more technical and catchy. but yeah, i hate all my songs, but i love writing them.

 

[Zona Mona]

I agree about the playing other's stuff to help you. This helped my lead playing a lot to transcribe Hendrix, Page Anistasio, etc. They gave me new ideas that are my own yet they were like the springboard.



I also doubt my lyrics, it just seems like I have no inspiration

 

[johnzo]

Maybe one day I’ll have twenty or thirty to choose from, and I’ll start refining my faves. I once saw a movie about the Stones, and they were working on something over and over and over. It ended up a lot different than when they started.

Wow... you just opened up a whole new dimension for me. I just never thought of it this way before. I always try to write stuff and refine it... and i usually end up hating the piece and tossing it out.

I think what i'm gonna try to do now is slug it out and finish these songs... and have plenty to choose from. It will definitely be interesting to see how you progress... and how your style changes!

Thanks mate!

 

[apl]

Thanks mate!

You're welcome! Listen to my stuff. I know it's got its sucky side, but there are lyrics and structure in place, and it'll be easy to come back to it later.

I try not to care too much about what people think, but after a year of work (wow, it's been about a year since I finished the first song on my soundclick site, and now I've got seven ) I'd rather have 10 so-so songs my friends and family will get a kick out of, than one really good one!

"How long you been working on yer music?"

"Oh, about a year."

"Well, I've got an hour, let's listen."

"Umm, it's only three minutes."

 

[glynb]

Johnzo,
If you are going to 'toss a song out' then you have nothing to lose by radically re-working it and trying something very different with the tune. Maybe addingv a new section, changing the instrumentation or structure, whatever. The only thing you can lose is time, which is very important (especialy at my age!) but when you start out with a new song idea you never know if it will work or not so you invest time in finding out.

You may take a half idea, rework it and come up with a song that works really well.

Sometimes I instictively seem to know when a song is not quite right, though i can't see what the problem was at the time and end up stuck . So I leave it a few months and come back, then sometimes the 'solution' comes immediately maybe changing lyrics or music or both.

 

[Rokket]

Johnzo,
If you are going to 'toss a song out' then you have nothing to lose by radically re-working it and trying something very different with the tune. Maybe addingv a new section, changing the instrumentation or structure, whatever. The only thing you can lose is time, which is very important (especialy at my age!) but when you start out with a new song idea you never know if it will work or not so you invest time in finding out.

You may take a half idea, rework it and come up with a song that works really well.

Sometimes I instictively seem to know when a song is not quite right, though i can't see what the problem was at the time and end up stuck . So I leave it a few months and come back, then sometimes the 'solution' comes immediately maybe changing lyrics or music or both.

I just posted a similar answer to what I am about to say here, so bear with me. When I write, it's never the first draft of any of my songs that gets recorded. More like the 20th. Most of the time I will write something that's been written before, so I have to take it apart line by line and make it fresh and new. I have never written anything that I liked on the first draft. I have songs that are 10-15 years old that still don't have music to them. In a way, I envy apl. At least he's got 7 songs he can say are done. I've got 4. And one of them is a remake that was requested of me.

 

[apl]

In a way, I envy apl. At least he's got 7 songs he can say are done.

Hey, Rokket, I can't call them done, just done for now. I've only been writing and recording for a year, so at this point, anyway, I'm having a lot of fun trying new things.