Condensers, Cardoids and Preamps Oh My!

[sondriven]

Hi, I have been pondering something here and maybe some of you could give me some advice.

I record vocals through a Rode NT1 into a Presonus Blue Tube Pre straight into my Akai DPS 16.

I have been practicing at having a more aggresive approach with my singing. When I try to capture this with the Rode, something just plain sucks. I was wondering if the capsule is callapsing or something and should I try a SM58, which I regret I dont have. I hear a lot of people using this for recording some vocals.

I would have to compare the vocal style like that of the chorus of Creeds song "What If".

Thanks for any advise.

john

 

[philboyd studge]

You might consider adding an analog compressor in the chain between the preamp and the recorder.

 

[Basil]

many things to consider here

For starters are you using a pop filter in front of that mic to displace the air. If not you will keep popping the capsule and it will not sound good (probably what you are experiencing). This is critical on vocals. Now forget compression for now and address the fact that you hate the sound. WHY? Well I suggest separating the pre and the mic. Do you have a mixer to run the mic in and see if the results are better? I have not heard a lot of good things about the blue tube and frankly it is a cheap pre and unlikely to be very good. The preamp is arguable the most important item in the chain. I suggest you try to determine if this is the problem. I think a little investigative work will help. Also, what about your singing? It is an instrument jsut the same and if you are not singing corretly it will sound nasally, bad, u name it. I suggest you consider these things before you jsut go buying new stuff and see if you can rule out the problems that may be the cause instead of focusing on a symptom. When you want a compressor, check out the RNC at mercenary for 175. Best one out there under 1k. Peter

 

[sondriven]

$1000 for a compressor?? Im sure it would rock but I have not that much cash to spend. I have a crappy little Alesis compressor that I forgot to mention I use in line with the preamp.

I do need to get a pop filter. The Akai has a preamp in it but it sucks. I can never get any volume out of it. So the Presonus Pre is the one for now. I had a ART Preamp, but like the Presonus better.

I have been messin around with compression settings, whats a good place to start for heavy vocals?

Thanks for the input.

john

 

[Whoopysnorp]

No, not $1K, $175. I think that's what he meant. I didn't realize the RNCs were so cheap. Anyway, they're supposed to be the cat's pajamas.

 

[Basil]

I meant the RNC was better than anything under 1000

It is a steal at 175. That Alesis will ruin your sound more than help. Try taking it out of the picture. Peter

 

[TexRoadkill]

Without a pop filter you are kinda screwed if your trying to do a lot of loud, high pressure singing. Compression can help as a last resort but I doubt that is your solution.

A 58 will definately handle a lot more pressure.

Try the pop filter first.

 

[Basil]

I do not recommend you follow the 58 idea recording. Another thing that got me thinking is placement of the mic. How close to your mouth is it? Go hear and check out their FAQ on using mics in the studio etc. http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

 

[PowerCouple]

Let's start from the beginning...

Hey Sondriven!

You said you were approaching an "aggressive" singing, right?

Well, I think you better check out two things (the pop filter IS something else to check out)

1) I assume you are singing really loud (you said "aggressive" and "heavy") so you have to know that microphones can handle up to certain SPL (Sound Pressure Level) so you are probably saturating your mic. Take a step back, away from the mic and try singing not-so-close to the mic. Or try lowering the gain in your PreSonus (don't use the "drive" knob for vocals, please!).

2) The NT1 is a cardioid, condenser mic, what it means it produces something called "proximity effect". This makes a boost in low freqs as you get close to the mic, making the recording muddy if you don't get a grip on it, so singing a little "away" from the mic will help as well.

...and get a pop filter or do it yourself with an old pantyhose and a "sewing frame"?? I really dont know how "that" is called in english...sorry...

Peace...

PC

 

[sondriven]

Goin to make a pop filter tonight. I work at a foam factory and can shave a piece of foam to a milimeter. I think that'll serve the purpose. Ill let you know if it helps.

Thanks for the input.

john

 

[PowerCouple]

it will work I guess...

But remember that is not the only thing... adding a popfilter won't make your vocal tracks sound spectacular just like that...

Peace...

PC

 

[darrin_h2000]

Get a new mic, that rode nt1 sucks you can purchse a b1 from behringer for 99.00 that sounds like a nt2. which is a world better. I use the blue tube and find it is fine for smooth vocals and works for metal if you turn the drive up.

I use a C1 with that and put it through a levelar(ART).

those akai pres do come in handy for drum overheads,when you are using the blue tube for room mics or vice versa.

 

[battleminnow]

I have an NT1 from it's release days. Yeah, they suck, but they didn't then so I don't feel dumb for having one

For aggressive rock stuff like you mentioned, I have found that a 58 up close (3 in) with the NT1 back about 18-24 inches does alot for the aggression. I haven't been able to check out some of the new gear I just bought (pre, mics, etc.) but direct into Korg d1600 it does an above average job.

If you are really hard up and can't aford a 58 (much less a pop filter) sell the NT1 (ebay, about $140-170 used believe it or not) and get a MXL V67 and a pop filter, or a Behringer B1 and a pop filter. Both run $99 new, and kick the crap out of the NT1. Pop filter, around $20 (or a coat hanger and a nylon stocking) I have a V67m and a Behr. B1 on the way.

Good Luck,
Pete

 

[PowerCouple]

mmmmm......

Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think it's a matter of technique and approaching, he can get any mic, but if the problem sondriven has is what I think it is, it will remain there, no matter wich mic he gets...

...once again, I can be wrong...

Peace...

PC

 

[sondriven]

I have gotten some decent results in the past with the set up I have. The NT1, Presonus Blue Tube and the crappy Alesis Compressor. But my past vocals were much more mellower and not so intense, but Im having a hard time explaining why the more aggressive vocals are sounding bad. Ill record the chorus section of the song with the equipment I have with a pop filter, post it and find out what you are hearing.

Thanks.

John

 

[sondriven]

Okay, I finished the song. I used the stuff i said i was using and heres how it turned out. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/sondriven/singles

"Before You Knew It"

john

 

[NYMorningstar]

Bravo! I listened to both your songs and enjoyed both. A "Before you knew it comment": I'm a musician and thought that you could have EQ'd the vocals a bit higher to get a bit more bite from them, it seemed the guitar stepped on them a bit, but my wife( a professional listener )also listened and thought the vocals sounded just right, vibrant and clear. We both agree regardless it sounds excellent. Thank you for the listen!