compression with digital

[jnorman]

1) if i move to a digital system, will i still need/want to use compression on piano and acoustic strings while recording the original tracks, or should i record a perfectly unaffected signal from the mic?
2) do the software packages have compression available, or do i need to use outboard gear between the mic and the recorder?
3) whether i compress or not up front, should i compress at mixdown, or only during mastering?
4) how hot a signal should i be able to get prior to mastering? should i be able to match commercial CD levels prior to mastering?
5) if i have to buy two more mics to record a grand piano, should i go with small diaphragms or large (ie, akg c1000s vs c3000)

 

[flaccid]

1) In my opinion - always use analog compression - rack compressors. I prefer processing the sound on laying down the tracks, rather than mix down. In my opinion digital effects/processors especially compression lacks lacks clarity.
2) Yes, software compression plug-ins are available. But stay with racks if possible.
3) Always record digital tracks at -1db or below - never 0db or above. Same for mixdown.
5) As for miking grand pianos, i've never done it before. I'd prolly go with large diaphragms, and compress the single heaps.
But its probably a personal preference - experiment.

Cheers.

[This message has been edited by flaccid (edited 10-13-1999).]

 

[37point5]

Okay, here's my take, question by question:

1)If you use digital, I'd probably recommend using a slight amount of compression (no more than a 3:1 ratio, since you can't cut it back once it's been recorded) to get hotter signals to the disk in order to use up more bits (makes for a clearer signal, especially after extensive processing). But you could certainly get away with just compressing with software; it'll just be harder to get a great mix.

2)I know that most of the Waves packages have a compressor, and they're quite good. But there are plenty others out there, and a few are shareware or freeware that can be had for free off the net.

3)I always compress certain instruments in the mix, like the snare, bass drum, bass guitar, vocals, and anything else with sharp attacks or massive volume shifts. You pretty much have to in order to get everything to sit right in the mix. For mastering I use the Waves L1 Ultramaximizer, which is a limiter that also dithers for more clarity.

4)Before mastering you should try to get the mix to peak within a dB below 0 dB (we're still talking digital here, of course). The problem is that those peaks will usually be far louder than the rest of the mix, which means your whole song will sound a few dBs lower than the peaks. That's why the L1 is cool: it limits the peaks, thus letting you turn the whole mix up a lot higher.

5)Depends on if you're mixing the piano in stereo or mono. If you're going for stereo, it probably doesn't matter that much (it's a matter of taste, I guess), but if you're going to record in mono I'd probably just get one large diaphragm mic with a omni pattern. I've heard PZMs work well for pianos, too.

Ryan

 

[S8-N]

Hey, wait...
I always heard that it was best to get a totally unprocessed pure dry signal to "tape" and then process from there...
In addition... what would be the difference in compressing before going into the recording medium... versus compressing by running a line out from the unprocessed track into the compressor and back into a new track so you could keep the original track intact in case you decided the track sounded overcompressed later in the mix???

just curious...
S8-N

 

[37point5]

S8-N,

Yeah, you're totally right, but only if you go to actual analog tape. That's 'cause if you overload the meters a bit on tape, it'll give a nice warm saturation (i.e., a strange sort of distorted compression), which is often desirable. But if you overload the meters on digital, it just sounds nasty. On the other hand, you want to get your record levels as hot as you can on digital to maintain a high bit depth, which is why I say you should only compress enough to reduce the loudest peaks; you probably shouldn't be cutting more than a dB or two off of the source. To be honest, though, I rarely use compression to disk. Usually I can get by without it by just carefully setting my faders beforehand, and by punching in loud sections on other tracks. For example, if there's a part in the song where the singer starts screaming, I'll just stop and record that part onto another track after having pulled the faders down a bit.

So, basically, in answer to your second question, compressing before recording just lets you get hotter levels onto the disk, but it's debatable whether the control you give up (i.e., being able to change the amount of compression later on) is worth the few extra dBs.

Any other opinions on this?

Ryan

 

[sonusman]

I agree with Ryan here, to a point.

In digital, IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET THE HOTTEST SIGNAL POSSIBLE!!!

As far as giving up control, that really depends. In the case that you pretty much know that you are going to compress a track at mix, well, there is a reason for doing that right? So, with something like a vocal, hitting up to 3db of compression while tracking, for the sake of getting better record levels, well, you would have probably compressed at least 3 db at mix, so, better to get the bit resolution. This is a very acceptable trade in digital.

But there is another solution. I have found more times than not that those nasty little peaks while tracking are transients, usually, high frequency, so you really need a way of smoothing out those buggers. A tube mic pre-amp is the way to go for this. Hitting the input of the pre-amp pretty hard, then trimming the output to get full meters. I always do this on sharp attacking sources. It works like a dream. Transients are gone, and you find that the dynamic of the track really isn't that big.

Be carefull also of proximity on the mic from the source. Getting the mic too close will cause the mic to be super sensitive to transients. With vocals in particular. Back that bad boy away. You will also get a much more ambient sound......

Good luck.

Ed