compression/limiting during tracking

[postalblue]

how much compression/limiting do you guys use when tracking drums or any overly dynamic material, if any?

adriano

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I don't use any compression while tracking drums, a slight amount on bass (if the player is uneven), none on electric guitars, possibly a tad on acoustic guitars. and I'll use moderate to heavy compression on a wildly erratic singer.

 

[Lopp]

For the heavier musical styles I record, I love compressing at least the kick and snare drums. A little slower attacke time really allows the initial transients through. Of course, no compression on the cymbals.

 

[Mike B]

Harvey,

I've heard it's a good idea when tracking to digital to use peak limiting on drum mics. Do you not recommend this? If it's not really necessary, I'd rather not be bothered with it anyway.

Mike

 

[postalblue]

and what about setting the compressor to just slightly (2:1) compress the hottest peaks, which would otherwise overload the a/d conversors?
wouldn't that garantee a hotter signal, and better headroom?

adriano

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Mike, and adriano,

I just don't use compression on drums while tracking. It brings up the other stuff when the compressed channel isn't being hit and I don't need the extra bleed. IF the drummer is very consistant AND I want a lot of definition, I'll gate each drum, and maybe compress the snare (and sometimes the kick) during mixdown. But I like to have all the drum dynamics available to me at mixdown, then I'll decide what I want to do with that.

Sometimes at mixdown, I'll run the entire drum submix thru a compresser with a slow attack and release and heavy ratio to even out the overall mix a little, then run that thru another compresser to catch just the fast peaks. Makes for a really big drum mix.

 

[fenix]

i'm a huge fan of Tom lord-alge's work. He uses so much compression. I tend to do the same.

 

[alanhyatt]

how much compression/limiting do you guys use when tracking drums or any overly dynamic material, if any?

adriano

I hope you all understand the difference between compression and limiting. So, if I may rant a bit. Compression was invented to be an effect. It was never intended to perform any electronic protection. Compressors should not have a ratio higher than 10:1, otherwise, it should be considered a limiter.

So when you say compression, or limiting, there is a big difference. Many manufacturers so called compressors are really limiters at best...no I won't mention names, so what often happens is it gets mistaken for true compression. So what happens is compression gets a bad name. For instance, I always hear people say, "the sound is pumping and breathing, and it's muddy"... followed by the statement that compression "sucks". Unfortunately, pumping and breathing is caused by higher ratios, so it is really limiting.

So, if any of you out there are compressing away at ratios higher than 10:1...you are not compressing

Now for me, I love to compress. I compress my drum submixes during mixdown only, but I do use other DSP like gates, verb and other stuff, I do compress guitars, bass, lead and background vocals, and other highly dynamic material, but not electronic keyboards, strings, and horns...well sometimes horns, but all at low ratios. Again, this is what has worked for, and may not work for you. I usually reserve limiting for mastering, but do find occaisional uses for it in tracking.

As for low ratios for D/A's, well overloading the converters is another story. My Apogees like +18 so overloading them can be hard if you a stickler for levels like I am, so I think it all depends on the converters you have, and what input they like to see.

Alan Hyatt

 

[JuSumPilgrim]

Doesnt anyone here worry about getting a loud signal going in to maximize the signal to noise? I used to go very easy on compression (if I used any) going in until I got the RNC a year ago. Ive used it on vocals with a 1.7:1 ratio (in regular non-supernice mode) with a threshold of -4 or so to gently ride transients to get a louder signal to disk. So it works as both a compressor and limiter.

 

[postalblue]

alan,

i do understand the difference between a limiter and a compressor, otherwise my question would have been 'what's the difference between a limiter and compressor'. i only mentioned using a compressor at high ratio settings because i do not have a limiter, at least not a hardware one. my concern is exactly getting the hotest signal to tape/disk without overloading the converters, exactly what jusumpilgrim is worried about. so if i decide to use a limiter during tracking i'll have to improvise with my compressor, and that will be a conscious choice.

adriano

 

[alanhyatt]

adriano,

What do you consider high ratios, and what does your converters make claim they need to see on the input before overloading?

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group

 

[postalblue]

i don't like to use anything over 4 or 5:1, depending on the material and unless i'm going for a really squashed sound. the only real-time compressor i have access to right now will only go to 10:1, which as you said yourself and i agree is limiting, not compression. so i thought i'd try and use it on that setting.
as for the converters, i'm not sure about that, i'll have to check. but i did experience some serious clipping this week when recording without any processing, so that moved my original question.
i do know that some people like to track using compression, and others like to limit. since i'm a newbie, i'm not sure if it's the right thing for me, as some people say it's better to compressor during tracking because it's easier to keep noise floor down, whereas when you're compressing after the fact, you're only bringing up the noise you already recorded.
btw, moved by another thread in this forum, i'm now using the c3 on bass drum with nice results.

adriano