Compression in live music

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redaxe

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This is my first post at HRD
I am asking anyone who is familiar with LIVE sound mixing to answer some simple questions about using a Dual channel compressor in a live mix. I read some really eye opening articles tonight by paul white who mentions a great deal about mixing down recorded tracks, but I'm looking for a guide who has applied these experiences live.
I Have NEVER used a compressor before and have yet to add it into my rack...
*thanks*
redaxe
 
They are used alot on drums and bass for live use. They can be tricky because they will cause more feedback on mics if your not carefull.

What specificly are you wanting to know about?
 
i'm using alesis 3630 for compress vocals for live performance, it is important because of voice dynamics...
 
I'm wondering about the actual Input/output of the unit-should I go with a Y shaped insert with send & returns and use the inserts on the back of the board? I have two boards( a Mackie 1402 aand a Behringer 2004a eurorack) . I bought the compressor with no background on it-it was marked down at mars music in boston form 199.$ to 70.$ so I went and bought it... It is a Phonic pcl3200 and had a 4 page manual which listed and described the functions only.
 
Yes, use the inserts on the back of your board with the Y cable if you want to use it on an indiviual channel. Use it inline on your master outs if you just want to compress the entire mix a little before hitting the power amp.
 
Well, I took it on a test run last night at an Open Mic I host, and it was a challenge, but did wonders for the "soft' singers... I was able to use different mics also and found I could actually properly gain a Marshal m63 for a live show with out major problems(except a cycle Hum it was picking up from the guitar string frequency) so I am sold... Compresson works and I am glad I spent the money.
I can't wait to run sound for one of the LOUD bands now!*laughs nervousely*
 
Don't forget...in heavy use, as in a loud band, it can be used quite effectively as a limiter for bass and kick drum....the two most power-hungry signals in live sound.
Used as a limiter, a lot of the power and punch will be there, just not the voicecoil slamming, cone-shredding speaker excursion.
 
Thanks for the heads up!
I Ran the system again tonight in a more controlled environment. Using short attack and long release I got a nice Mix for the vocals UNTIL the performer finished the song. It seems the phonic pcl3200 has a built in gate and it was dramatic when the performer was speaking to the audiance. I had matched the gain levels so I just bypassed teh compressor manually when she was done singing... It may just be me, but I think the compression is better bypassed when the performer is chatting while they tune their guitar. I guess.

In terms of the LOUD mixing... My last experience was like this... I basically mixed vocals only-the band is in a small low ceiling basement club-the amps are extremely loud and the drummer still stays on top. These guys had run their own sound a few times, but when heard them teh first time the vocals were buried by the instruments. I Mixed for them but only did vocals, since it was my first time. We used my system, mackie 1402, 2 reverb units, Behringer digital eq and 800 watts of peavey power... I know this show would have been bigger if I could have properly controlled the gain and gated out the other crap, so I think this little unit will help... maybe if this keeps up, I will buy a couple more units and run all teh inserts...

*heh heh heh*
 
i have had better luck using a compresser in the "effects in" bus of the mixer rather than run it inline ...for live applications that is. That way you can control the amount of compression that goes to each individual channel. When I have run the whole mix thru the compresser i have had trouble with feedback and also had trouble with levels....it seems like something is either buried in the mix, or it dominates the mix...hard to get the level right. I usually compress everything but using the effects bus and being able to regulate the amount of compression to each channel gives me so much more control overall.
 
Jimistone- You are fooling yourself with that one. You are mixing slightly compressed signals with the main signal. Not neccessarily bad but that is not individual compression on each channel. The compressor is actually working according to the loudest signal it recieves and the rest are just along for the ride.
 
jimstone,

that can work ok in recording sometimes, but that's not going to help you out much in live PA where you need to control dynamics.
 
it has worked better for me in live situations. I agree that the compresser compresses the loudest signal the most. when you crank the effects level knob on the vocal channel for example....to the compresser, thats the loudest signal...but if you turn the fader down on that channel its not nessesarily the loudest signal going to the amp. when you compress the whole mix the loudest signals get compressed the hardest...which is usually the vocals (and you might want more compression on the bass than the vocals and no compression at all on the drums) I have tried compressing both ways and in my opinion using the effects send and controling the amount of compression for each channel produces a better result for me.
 
jimistone
that is what I first thought, but I Like to experiment, and what i see so far is the compressor would work well in that sort of application as well as this...I think a major thing to consider is the experience with the band in question, and I have yet to run all the amps and drums through the board because they are a truely LOUD band so I'm sure the instruments would take up most of the compression... My main concern is to have clear, strong vocals present in the room- I think I have to consult my manuals, and try a few different ways in a rehersal before really dedicating it anywhere...
My biggest fear is uncontrolled feedback and cycle hums, but I've done well so far(well there were a *few* times).
thanks for your feedback
 
Is it safe to assume NOBODY compresses monitors? That's a no-no if you're trying to get a handle on feedback.
 
Thats a good point Trash. I guess that's what I was talking about mainly. If you can feed your monitors with a dry monitor send then you can compress the hell out of the vocals with less difficulty.
 
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