Complete retrack - Brownstone (with Pete Huttlinger)

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Llarion

Llarion

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Hey guys...

Just posted up an early mix of my tune Brownstone. (EDIT - NEW MIX POSTED, 10/27/09 11:36PM) This is a tune some of the old guard may actually remember; it's from 2005, and at the time had my old Roland V-stage drums, and I played poorly, iffy meter and all that. Anyway, it's on the upcoming CD, so it deserved and got a complete retracking over the weekend to do Pete Huttlinger's great guitar parts the justice they deserve. (well, OK, the melody, triangle, and synth pad tracks survived but the drums, bass, piano, rhodes, congas and shaker parts are new)

My early-mix questions for you:
1) The melody is a chorused bass. I like it, but I don't like it, and I'm not sure why in both directions. I wanted mysterious, and string-percussive timbre... (CHANGED EQ A TAD)
2) Does the guitar solo have enough breathing room? is the harmony part too far apart in the field; do they need to be closer? (NARROWED THE FIELD QUITE A BIT)
3) Is it too dense overall, or did I find room for all the textures? (Piano and phased Rhodes, 2 Pete rhythm guitar parts hard-panned, pad, percussion)
4) Do the congas need to come up? (BROUGHT CONGAS UP)

http://www.revernation.com/philtraynor - Brownstone should be the first tune in the player.

Thanks much!!! You guys have been a big help to me on this project! (Special props to Jeff M for kicking my ass, I got the melody "Abby" retracked on flute...)
 
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1) Bass sounds awesome as-is
2) The main solo part is too up front, and yes, reel that harmonized part in some. It sounds kind of weird way out there all by itself.
3) It is dense, but in a good way. It's got a very full stereo field but everything is there. I can hear everything but nothing is overpowering anything else. The phased rhodes is sweet.
4) Congas? I didn't really notice them, so yeah, probably so. :D

My only other comment is the snare tone. It's awfully dark for a song like this. I think something brighter/snappier would suit the song better. Nice job overall. :)
 
Greg_L said:
1) Bass sounds awesome as-is
2) The main solo part is too up front, and yes, reel that harmonized part in some. It sounds kind of weird way out there all by itself.
3) It is dense, but in a good way. It's got a very full stereo field but everything is there. I can hear everything but nothing is overpowering anything else. The phased rhodes is sweet.
4) Congas? I didn't really notice them, so yeah, probably so. :D

My only other comment is the snare tone. It's awfully dark for a song like this. I think something brighter/snappier would suit the song better. Nice job overall. :)
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Thanks very much... see each number for comment...

1) Thanks for the confidence... I tried some different EQ curves, but found that an edgier curve wouldn't sit right...
2) The separation on the solo is cool on nearfield monitors, but a bit bizarre in phones. I definitely think it needs to come in from the cold a little.
3) I'm with you here; I always tend toward lush/dense placements, but I was worried about things getting stepped on. Still some finessing to do...
4) HAHAHAHAH! Okay, I'll nudge them up a bit. They're about 1/3 to the right, but a stereo track, so they spread.

On the snare... I fight mightily with my snare. I've brought it up almost an octave from where I started, but I can see your point. I just didn't want ti to get to a "piccolo" crackle; I wanted some depth and body and warmth to it. I'm not well versed in tuning drums for effect though. I love Rami's snare.
 
Llarion said:
On the snare... I fight mightily with my snare. I've brought it up almost an octave from where I started, but I can see your point. I just didn't want ti to get to a "piccolo" crackle; I wanted some depth and body and warmth to it. I'm not well versed in tuning drums for effect though. I love Rami's snare.
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Yeah Rami's got a nice pop to his snare.

You know, I'm rarely a fan of piccolo snares, pretty much never, but in my head I can hear one doing well in this song.
 
Sounds real classy Phil.

The bass sounds kick ass.

Cool use of perc effects as well.

This one is keeper in my ears:cool:
 
My early-mix questions for you:
1) The melody is a chorused bass. I like it, but I don't like it, and I'm not sure why in both directions. I wanted mysterious, and string-percussive timbre...
2) Does the guitar solo have enough breathing room? is the harmony part too far apart in the field; do they need to be closer?
3) Is it too dense overall, or did I find room for all the textures? (Piano and phased Rhodes, 2 Pete rhythm guitar parts hard-panned, pad, pecussion)
4) Do the congas need to come up?

1 - The bass does sound pretty sweet.

2 - The guitar solo does swing nicely. I do think the guitar harmony might be a bit too far left. Kind of gets left heavy when it kicks in.

3. Very nice separation. Cool and spacious, yet very cohesive. The mix really sounds great.

5. I had a hard time hearing congas as well.

Overall the mix sounds great. Drums are nicely recorded. The lead guitar smokes. Love all the little percussive elements. Keyboards sound great. Really pro job. Nice touch with the guitar solo going along with the fade out. Awesome stuff.
 
not much to add, except that I'm someone else who can't hear any congas.

Everything fits well - the lead guitar is awesome, but maybe a little too loud. At the end, it's coming up on the right for me (could just be my set up, or ears, or dented head) - it might be nice to have something on the left counterbalancing it some - I think there's room.

The bass is perfect.
 
Thanks guys... I'm definitely going to narrow the filed on the solos, nudge them down a dB or two, and pull the congas up a bit. I have rehearsal, but later tonight maybe... :)
 
Llarion said:
Thanks guys... I'm definitely going to narrow the filed on the solos, nudge them down a dB or two, and pull the congas up a bit. I have rehearsal, but later tonight maybe... :)
Click to expand...

OK, new mix is up!!!
http://wwww.reverbnation.com/philtraynor

I pulled the guitar solos back a bit and narrowed the field on them, added a tiny bit of edge to them.

Brought the congas up, moved them to the left, narrowed their separation (they are a stereo track).

I bumped the rhythm guitar parts up a smidge.

Teeny bumps at 80Hz and 6.3KHz on drums, master drum submix is lower by about 1.5ddB

Melody has more upper mids, less low end, sitting a little different in the soundfield now, doesn't fight with the bass guitar part as much.
 
Did Hut play this on his acoustic with fuzz?

He certainly is a well-rounded player with super ears. Tastee stuff.

Can I overlay a track, a-la Barry White...heavy breathing and "Oh, baby"'s n' stuff? :^)

Great job...wish I could make sounds like that. And I really love the kit's brass...out front, and splashing...sounding great.

And, oh yeah, the bass sound is fundy and gritty. Good parts, too.
 
jeffmaher said:
Did Hut play this on his acoustic with fuzz?

He certainly is a well-rounded player with super ears. Tastee stuff.

Can I overlay a track, a-la Barry White...heavy breathing and "Oh, baby"'s n' stuff? :^)

Great job...wish I could make sounds like that. And I really love the kit's brass...out front, and splashing...sounding great.

And, oh yeah, the bass sound is fundy and gritty. Good parts, too.
Click to expand...

Thanks.. No, he played this stuff on a Tele... His acoustic is a Collings OM1...

I found a spot near the end where I accidentally slid a measure of drums up almost an eight note, and I nudged the congas up another notch, they didn't appear in the car when I listened, and the car is the final arbiter... :) So there's yet a new version posted.

PLUS!! I had an accidental flash of brilliance! As I was working with the tune, I was listening to just the two rhythm parts Pete did to check alignment and balance (they question/answer each other down the right and left sides), and I dropped in the synth pad, for context, with nothing else. And holy shit, was it cool. So, I made a new session out of just that, excerpted the cool section, added the bar chimes back in, cut a different, more open bass part for it, and now I have the beautiful, ethereal "reprise" of the song to close the CD with. It fades in and then back out... So, looks like Brownstone opens the CD now... :) The "reprise" is posted at
for your enjoyment...

NOTE: For those of you wondering who the hell Pete Huttlinger is, he is LeAnn Rimes' touring guitarist, he was John Denver's primary guitarist from 1994 until Denver's death in 1997, and he is the 2000 world fingerstyle guitar champion. He's a top session cat in Nashville, too. I met him at The Swannanoa Gathering folk arts camp in 2005.
Sample video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MOAzcuwtcU&fmt=18
 
Sweet. Abject lesson on how much more, less can really be. That made my head swim.
 
Sounds good and I like the style. It's nice to have friends that know how to play.
 
I was too busy enjoying this to notice the mix. Sounds fantastic to me.

And this is a home recording. Wow
 
jeffmaher said:
Sweet. Abject lesson on how much more, less can really be. That made my head swim.
Click to expand...

Heh heh; is that a good thing or a bad thing? :)

Dodge,
Thanks... Yes, it's good to know people who play that well, but they don't necessarily come cheap :). Well, in this case, cheaper than normal Nashville scale, but still, it was a paid gig...

Bulls Hit,
Gracias, man. For the record, my signal chain is a MOTU 8pre into Adobe Audition, with Audition's native plugins and the Waves suite. Drums are Gretsch Renowns, Bass is a Peavey 1983 Foundation, Keys are a Yamaha OM8. Pete's stuff was done in his Nashville studio using ProTools...
 
Sweet, sweet audio goodness - even on crappy work headphones. It's stuff like this that both gives me hope, and helps me realize how far I've got to go.

Thanks for sharing!

Oh, and I couldn't hear congas, either. Didn't miss them, though. Sounds great as is.
 
PoeticIntensity said:
Sweet, sweet audio goodness - even on crappy work headphones. It's stuff like this that both gives me hope, and helps me realize how far I've got to go.

Thanks for sharing!

Oh, and I couldn't hear congas, either. Didn't miss them, though. Sounds great as is.
Click to expand...

Your words make me very happy, and very proud. I say that to myself a lot when I hear people play and sing that just knock my socks off. I realize that I've come a long way, but I also realize that there is continual hope and joy in the art of others, and I'm humbled by the greatness I continually encounter. That's why I like this forum so much; so many BRILLIANT musicians, composers, artists. I hear new things that just floor me each and every time I visit; be it an astounding lyric with a humble music bed, or technical proficiency that I only aspire to, or a gift for arranging that I hope to channel, or any combination of the above. I rejoice equally in the inexperienced guys who are trying so hard, the pro-level maniacs, and everything in between.

Thanks, your comment was a great thing to read today. :)
 
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