Cliches?

bdbdbuck

New member
I posted this in the mp3 clinic. Overall, I got some really good suggestions on how to improve the mix. There were a couple of posts giving me songwriting critique and one that hit me between the eyes was that I had "one too many cliches".

It's time to take this puppy to the SONGWRITING department.

I hereby throw this piece of red meat to the LIONS!
PLEASE give me your honest thoughts.

Powerless
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2834&alid=-1

Thanks guys!

bd
 
Hey man, could you post the lyrics too? I still have this on my machine at work, so when I need a mental break I could look it over and listen at the same time.

:cool:
 
BD...............



it's a love song..........................





Love is cliche......





I said in the clinic that it was well written......





and it is...............






for a Love song man......ya know?















sappy...
cliche...
emotional....
corny.....




















chicks dig that stuff man :D
Joe
 
joro said:
Love is cliche......


That's the best line I've heard in a while!

joro said:
chicks dig that stuff man :D

I read that women buy most of the music.
If that's the case dad, your in.
obtw, You are defineately the best songwriter I know.
not that i'm an authority like sc, but I've heard a few well written songs in my day, Unlike most of the stuff on the radio.
And besides, worst case, you can play guitar for me:D
-ok-ok-ok-ok-ok
-okjoe
 
Thanks Jag, here's the lyrics.

POWERLESS
©2003 Mark L. Rogers

How could I love you
For a million years or more
I don’t know, but I’m surely gonna try
I have no doubts about you
I just can’t live without you
I’m gonna love you until I die

(bridge)

God has sent me to you
He has reached me through you
And I think it’s safe to say

(chorus)

That I don’t really know very much about it
But I know enough to say
That I’m powerless to change it
But I’d never want to change it

Starin into space
I can always see your face
The brightest stars, are the fire in your eyes
I catch myself staring at you
There’s just something about you
I’m gonna love you until I die

(repeat bridge)

(repeat chorus)

I never really thought very much about it
But even if I did
I would never want to change it
I’m powerless to change it
I’m so powerless
 
WATYF,
I was having trouble earlier today too, the links were working but I couldn't get a lo-fi stream. It would bring up that "page cannot be displayed" thing..........hopefully it's fixed by now. I hope so, my next stop is the clinic.

Joro,
I guess you're right about that. I just don't want to be out here writing tunes full of cliches....it was just something that flowed as I was writing and I never gave it a lot of thought. My thing now is getting some perspective on it.

Joe,
Thanks for the vote of confidence.........I could probably think of numerous songwriters you know OF that are easily better. There are a bunch of em right here on this board!

Thanks all,
bd
 
BD...you are gonna have some cliches in a love tune...

I think the thing to consider is the sub-plot...that is...the story behind the love song...the circumstances...the enviroment..the time line...events..

Try using some of these in your tunes man...put a spin on it...
tell a story...ya know? :D

Take it easy man,
Joe
 
bdbdbuck,

I am surprised that the "one too many" Comment took you by surprise. Your song is a pretty conventional love song but How do I love thee? With Clichés I am downright happy to utter because I am in love. Plenty of people are feeling that way. You are preaching to the converted. Some people wanna fill the world… If you keep it in your repertoire let it flow in performance the way it flowed while writing and no one will be able to accuse you of being dishonest. Go ahead, make some lovers day!
 
This is good, man. Not too corny at all.

If you're concerned about the space/face thing, you could add some adjectives: boundless space, perfect face (I tried celestial face - that's kinda sucky) - they draw attention away from the rhyme itself, make it a little less obvious. And it's okay to let lyrics crowd over the end of the phrase, sounds a bit less contrived...

But it's fine like it is.

One other thing you didn't ask about (but I'm gonna tell you anyhow:rolleyes: ) "God SENT me to you" puts you in the role of the angel, which isn't what you mean, I don't think. "God LED me to you", or something similar, might get your point across better?

Great song, bd.

Daf
 
Joro,
Thanks again man, your post made a lot of sense to me. That's exactly why I posted this tune here. BTW...am I gonna have to come up there and form a search party for Ralph? With all the stuff he's got goin on there, you may want to check on him! He's liable to be collapsed under a piano somewhere LOL! You mentioned a collab sometime back...whatchagotinmind?

terocious,
Your comments were very eloquent..........almost like a song! I don't think I've heard any of your stuff, but it sounds like I really should. Thanks for the comments, and let me know where I can hear your music man.

daf,
That one phrase you mentioned is something I NEVER thought about. That's an excellent point! Something that's easily changed without upsetting the apple cart. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Thanks for the listen and the comps!


bd
 
Ok here we go. My stuff is a little strange. No music, just affected vocals. I am trying to bring more sound effects into the mix. Working with a concept of music which suggests music. I cannot decide if it is appropriate to post the words as this thread is about your song and not mine. If you would like me to I will and we can turn Clichés into a mini clinic. It is a great name for an album. (Fleetwood Mac eat your heart out.)

http://newstereo.net/runningsong/CoolysCaperRadioReprise-((newstereo)).mp3
 
Wow the link wont work because of the dash I have in the filename. perhaps it can be cut and pasted into the address.
let' see.

http://newstereo.net/runningsong/CoolysCaperRadioReprise-((newstereo)).mp3
 
Ok man…I took a more studious look at this during my lunch. First, let me say that I really think this is a pretty damn good song. As for your original question about clichés, yeah, maybe one too many in there. Maybe. I’m not totally convinced of that. It didn’t really bother me through casual listens. But I’m not against the use of clichés on occasion :D.

The rest of my comments could really be considered in the nit category. Things that I may have spent too much time fretting about if I had written the song :D And remember, these are only the opinions someone who still hasn’t gotten this all figured out yet, so take them as such…

First verse

I have a little confusion here. However, I think that could be eliminated by tying the first two lines to the last line a little tighter. Maybe like below. To me this would send a message that you say you don’t know if love lasts forever, but you are damn sure positive that it will last through your life time. The original lyric confused me a little in that you are talking about trying to love someone forever and then you are going to love them until you die. That doesn’t work for me logically unless you plan on living a million years or more :p :D. This change would also not change the meaning of the song IMO. (see, that was a lot of words over one little nit wasn’t it LOL)

How could I love you
For a million years or more
I don’t know, but I’m surely gonna try
I have no doubts about you
I just can’t live without you
At least I can love you until I die

Bridge

I agree with daf on the God has sent me to you part. I like his thought on that. (that reminds me, I owe daf a PM or something on one of his songs. I am going to try to burn it to a CD before I leave on vacation tonight so I can give it some attention while I am away) :).

Chorus

:up:

only thing is the last line. I like it and understand it. I might be inclined just to repeat the previous line just for effect and to drill the hook a little more.

That I don’t really know very much about it
But I know enough to say
That I’m powerless to change it
Yeah I’m powerless to change it

Just a random thought...may or may not be a good idea

Second verse

The space/face thing does kind of stick out. Consider this. The first verse has kind of a loose rhyme scheme of a, b, c, d, d, c (using the internal rhyme in lines 4 & 5). In theory, the verses should have the same rhyme scheme. That being said, you could replace the word “space” with just about anything that made sense and keep the continuity of the rhyme scheme from verse 1. Just a thought :)

I like the repeated line from the first verse “I’m gonna love you until I die” and the fact that you fit it into the structure of the verse so well. Very crafty IMHO.

The Tag (or whatever that is at the end)

I’m not a big fan of the line “I never really though very much about it”. The reason is that I think the rest of the song proves that point to be false because you are apparently thinking a great deal about it (there goes that logic again :D). You could use something like this for example without changing the meaning. (Again, just a quick idea thrown out)

I know I can’t do anything about it
But even if I could
I would never want to change it
I’m powerless to change it
I’m so powerless

Hey Mark, this is nice stuff. I don’t often critique someone’s songs this thoroughly, because I hate ruffling folks feathers. But you have shown that you are generally interested in improving and hear a big step forward in this one compared to the last one of yours I listened to. Remember, I am nit picking now, so keep that in mind. Very nice work man. Keep it up. Plus, since I’m still learning as well, this is a great mental exercise for me. Now if I could only follow my own advice sometimes :D:D
 
Wow, How did you do that dafduc?

bdbdbuck I just listened to Powerless and I think you should put aside any worry of cliche as the song says it all with your emotional commitment. (forgive me for using Acting terms) I am hardly qualified to comment on the mix beyond it sounded great coming out of my stereo.
 
I often don't critique lyrics either, but for some reason I feel compelled here - maybe becuase you seem to really want some good advice. I consider myself a lyricist above all, and I hope you'll take what I have to say as a genuine attempt to help you improve, as that's what it is.
That said... I don't like the lyrics. I do think they are cliche. On the other hand, I don't think love is cliche at all. It's the oldest and most common emotion there is, the most powerful, the most moving. There will always be songs about love, and for good reason. The trick is finding new ways to say it.
I'm not going to pick apart your existing lyrics, but rather give you some guidelines that might help you improve them yourself. If you decide I'm full of crap, that's fine too.

1) This song sound like it has personal meaning. That's fine for you (and her), but don't forget the rest of us. Always examine the lyrics from other perspectives. Instead of "I love you", how about "he loved her", or "they loved each other". You'll be surprised at how often a change in person will give an average song the spark it needs.

2) The second verse should say something different than the first. The minute you start re-hashing the same info, the listener starts losing interest.

more...
 
3) The verses move the story along. The chorus tells what the story is about.

4) Every new verse should cast its accompanying chorus in a new light. The line leading into the chorus has to be killer , and should almost always be different. Let me use one of mysongs as an example, if I may... It's a song about a guy getting dumped, named Variety Show. The chorus is basically, "It's a variety show..." But verse one talks about what a bad day it's been, and the lead in line the chorus is.. "some days are winners and some days are just a wreck....It's a Variety show."
The second verse talks about how she still has a hold of him and manipulated him, and the lead-in line is.... "all I am is just an act in her.... Variety show"
The third verse shows the guy finally geting over her and realizing there are other fish in the sea, and telling her: "I'm not begging for respect when there's about a million girls on my TV screen...It's a variety show...."
See how each verse paints the chorus in a new light? This maintains a listener's interest far more than just hearing the same stuff restated over and over....

more...
 
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