Choosing a mic for acoustic guitar recording

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YuvalAS

New member
Hello,
I now have the M Audio Fast Track Pro, MXL 990. (and some more accessories..)
I'm looking for a SDC mic for an acoustic guitar recording.
I like the high treble tone, and sure I'll get a better recording with a SDC (instead of my existing LDC).
In the future I'll use this mic for rhythmic shakers, cymbals, and cajon [in front of the soundhole). Maybe also as overhead on drums and violin.
But the most important thing for me is acoustic guitar.

My budget is somewhere around the $100.
A few specific models that "drew my eyes" are these: Shure PG81, and different MXL's, such as V67N, 551, 600, 603, 604, 991, 993.
Which one should I buy? I'm mostly focused on the Shure PG81/MXL V67N.
If it's important, the acoustic guitar is gonna be Takamine, but will be changed to a basic Taylor later.

What would you choose?
If you give recommendations for models that aren't listed above - they'll be accepted thankfully. But you should that I don't want to grab garbage, so please without unbranded mics, or branded but bad manufacturers such as CAD.

Thanks in advance,
Yuval.

P.S. I've already asked it in a very old thread, so I ask again in case people don't see it..
 
Yuval,
I'd check out the Samson C02s. Front End Audio has a pair for 100$. They did a really great job for me on Acoustic guitar and a better job than a set of MXL 603s as overheads. For that low of a price point I think the Samson's are a great choice. As for CAD, I wouldn't throw it in the junk category at all especially when you are talking about the M177/179. I've had the 179 and it's a great mic for around 130-140$ new. It has multiple patterns and is a very neutral mic that kills on drums and does a really good job on guitar cabs and acoustic. Its definitely not junk and worth a heck of a lot more than its price. Also the blue CAD M9 Tube mic is another great one. For 250-300$ (new) it's a great tube mic. I know a lot of people who dig that one as well.
 
I think the Neumann's are of course one of those "standard" mics that everyone should own one day but you can always send the Samson's to Joly one day and make them KM-84s :)
 
OK. The Samson looks nice.
But, Can anyone tell me once and forever, why do I need a pair of mics to record an acoustic guitar?
Can you send me any rocording of a guitar you've done with the Samson? (I didn't find any that were recorded in HQ on the web..)
What do you people think about these specific models: Shure PG81/MXL V67N ?
I heard this MXL here: YouTube - MXL V67N - Acoustic Guitar Demo 1080.mov
and it sounds really nice. What do you think?

Thanks again!
 
You don't have to record with a pair to record acoustic guitar but it's nice. I like having a stereo image and capturing different areas of the guitar. You can definitely do one mic. the MXL v67g I have does a nice job, so did the CAD m179, Rode NT1a did a pretty good job. Alot of LDC mics or ribbons like the MXL or Cascade Fathead will also do a great job. You don't have to limit yourself. You can get some decent mics for the 150$ price range.

Here's a clip of me using the Samson's:
So Now I'll Go On
 
Here's one more that we did with the Samson on Acoustic guitar and the CAD M179 on Vocals (omni pattern). For the Vocals we just all stood equal distance on different sides and sang at the same time. 3 tracks - 2 guitar tracks, one vocal.

It's Time to Say Goodbye
 
Thanks for the track you've sent me.
They sounds great, but the sounds are a little bit "swallowed", they are not so clean. Sounds like scorch. Jarring.
I preffer something fresher. I hope you understand what I mean.
For how long have you been using this Samson, and how did you locate them relatively to the guitar?
By the way, V67G is a LDC, when I talked about the V67N which is a SDC...
I'll tell you what my concern, I'm worried about taking the Samson which is not the best brand. It's known as the cheapie one. That's why I'm trying to find something like MXL or Shure.. I'll believe to YOUR words. Do you think that this Samson it's a good quality? That they're reliable and built to last?
Thank you so much for your help!

Edits: 1. By the way, firstly I'm gonna use it for a classical guitar micing, and then an electric acoustic guitar. What about recording the electric signal of the acoustic guitar?
2. Your acoustic recording sounds good when you're fingering on the intro. Bit I don't really like it when you're strumming. If you want to understand the style of recording I'm trying to get, then look for "Boyce Avenue" on Youtube, and listen to their recordings [such as: Broken Angel, Just The Way You Are, Find Me, Dynamite, Back For Good, Last Kiss, Only Girl, etc.]
Another music group you can try to listen to is Tyler Ward and crew. Their acoustic recordings I like the most are: Somewhere With You, ET, Teenage Dream, Perfect, Greande, Dynamite.
In some of his covers he plugged in the guitar directly into the interface. But look for example at Dynamite [Tyler ver.] and see that it's not plugged in, and there is one SDC mic that sounds fantastic - clean, and professional. That's a good example for the sound I'm looking for. (I know that the fact that it's a Taylor guitar affects the sound from one edge to the other, but on Tyler's version to Somewhere With You, he uses a simple Takamine - and it sounds good!)

Can't wait to your reply!
 
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Hey,
Please read my previous message before reading this, it will be more effective...
I made a lot of research of micropohones, thought about what I want, or been offered, and summed everything up - made a list of any model whose sound I like OR was offered to me.
Please try to read the list, it's arranged by manufacturer, and has color marks on it that means something, read the map under the list.

=========================================
Major usage: Recording a classical and an acoustic guitar.
As well as for rhythmic shakers, cymbals, and cajon [in front of the soundhole]. Maybe also as overhead on drums and violin.
Budget: Around $100.
Current gear: M-Audio Fast Track Pro A/I, MXL 990, Nady pop filter, MG's desk stand, XLR cables and accessories.
Recording style: As explained in my previous message: Boyce Avenue, Tyler Ward

• Shure: SM81, SM137, PG81
• MXL: V67N [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid], 603,
604 [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid], 991,
993 [advantage: interchangeable capsules-omni/cardioid]
• Earthworks Audio: M-series (especially M-30)
• Blue: Kiwi, Blueberry, Dragonfly, Baby bottle
• Audio Technica: AT2021
• Samson: CO2-pair [was recommended to me in this thread]
• CAD: CM-217-pair [was recommended to me in my previous thread]
• M-Audio: Pulsar II

Map:
Out of budget May be able to afford only an used one Was offered to me
=========================================

So which one do you think I should buy?
It's important to me to choose the right one, because I won't be able to afford buying another one. That's my budget.
And, if you can take a few minute, I'd be happy to hear what you think about my classical guitar recording using the MXL 990 LDC...
Here is a link: Miley Cyrus - When I Look At You - Stereo Acoustic by yuvalas on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
It has 2 tracks of classical guitar [one in the left, and the other in the right], one vocal track, and sometimes a Meinl's shaker... All tracks were recorded once each, so I know vocals aren't perfect nor there are mistakes... :)
lank81, As you can see, I really liked the site to which you've uploaded your tracks, soundcloud.
Thanks again, you all really help me, and I really do appreciate it...!
 
I listened to your track.

I read this thread because I design microphones, and am currently designing an acoustic guitar specific one. Not trying to sell anything though.

I can give some observations about voicing microphones specifically for acoustic guitar. We take a lot of measurements and do a good bit of math, but in the end we mic up various guitars and LISTEN.

First thing... The instrument is not a point source. It radiates sound over it's entire length, and a highly unidirectional close mic can sound a little clinical IMO due to it's sampling only part of the soundfield.(even with the usual neck/body joint placement)
If you experiment, you'll find an OMNI mic can give a very open natural sound on guitar...but it picks up a lot of room. That's fine if it's a good room, but more likely as not it isn't. I have heard some FABULOUSLY good sounding recordings with a linkwitz modified $3 6mm electret capsule. A little noise though.Not much.

So what we did was to go subcardioid...Broader pickup than regular cardioid to pick up more of the instrument but still a little back rejection (about 10dB) to knock down room sound some.

We also find off axis response is very very important for guitar recording, and voicing the units involves manipulating this a lot.

You asked about stereo pairs? Well, with xy you can have the effect of a broader pattern as well...

One other observation...classical guitar is very revealing for mic sound. We use a very good luthier made rosewood instrument for tests.
It better be good...traded a Martin d-28 and a '60s original fender jazz bass for it!

With your budget I can only thing of things like MXL 603 or 604 or CAD M179. I have several of the latter. Nice mic I have to say. Very neutral.
As for others I simply don't know because I haven't messed with them.

Of course Neumann KM84 or 184 is practically defacto standard but we know what those cost. The MXLs are kind of copies...totally different
circuitry though. The original 84 used a single fet charge amplifier transformer coupled... The MXL (like most) use a schoeps type transformerless
bit.

Shure SM-81 is good too...look for a used one? Biased on that choice though because my old boss designed it.

Les Watts
L M Watts Technology
 
I've gotten fantastic tracks on acoustic with a Shure 545 but HOLY SHIT MAN! That's pretty damned good by any standard. By the way, I couldn't understand a fucking word you sang but it didn't detract from the song in any way, shape, form or fashion. That sounded great (even with the cell phone ring:D).
 
Hey thanks for your replies.
I listened to the track recorded with the SM58 and still shocked that a dynamic mic could have got these results!

Because of the fact that I'm kinda locked on MXL's, and still think that a small diaphragm microphone is what I need for the sound I'm looking for (or more expensive LDCs which are unfortunately not affordable for me) I've contacted MXL's support to get their advice.

Here is what I wrote them:
Hello,
I'm looking for a small diaphragm condenser microphone for recording a classical and an acoustic guitar.
Maybe later I'll use it as overheads on drums nor in front of cajon's soundhole.
I saw several models by MXL, all around the same price range of about $100 and I really don't know what should I pick up.
The models I've seen are: MXL 603/604/V67N/991/993.
I'm sure I'll buy ONLY MXL's mic, because I had a really good experience with your quality.
And another question: What's the difference between omni and cardioid polar patterns, and for what each one is used?
If it's interesting you what sound I'll be trying to get out of an acoustic guitar's recording, then look for Boyce Avenue in YouTube and listen to the acoustic recordings [mostly covers]. Another singer you can look for is Tyler Ward, who gets a similar sound out of the guitar. Look for him too.
I know it also depends a lot on the guitar itself. Ignore it and think I use a Taylor's guitar like they do.
I'm trying to get the more realistic and natural sound, and like combination of treble and bass.
By the way, I can't find someone who owns a MXL's mic - I don't live in the US and it's not available in my country.
Thanks in advance,
Your help will be highly appreciated.
Click to expand...

That's the response I've gotten a few hours later:
First allow me to say thank you for being a dedicated MXL fan!

I will give my recommendation based on my experience and personal preference. For acoustic guitar the 603 would be the better choice to go with. The reason why is that is has a very natural sound which does not hype up the top end or give added bottom. The 991 and 993 will often times be a little brighter. The V67N is the only mentioned here which has a transformer. This gives it a different color as well as an added lower midrange. So for more a natural tone, I prefer the 603. Polar patterns emphasize in which direction the mic picks up the signal. Cardiod will only pick up with is in front of the mic. this is typically used for most vocal recordings as well as instrument. This often times is good when you are not trying to pick up any kind of bleed from other instruments. The omni will pick up 360 degrees around the mic. This will allow bleed as well as pick up the room noise. If you are in good room which is tuned and treated this can often times be the best way to go when recording instruments. I recommend doing a little more research on google.
Click to expand...

So they recommend the use of MXL 603. I was surprised that they don't recommend me their most expensive mic, but the cheapest from the list I've provided them. So THERE ARE good surprises in life.. :)

The weird thing is that all the models have the following logo, which means that they recommend it for acoustic guitars:
acoustic.gif

BUT, on the page of MXL 603 there isn't a logo for acoustics..

What do you think about getting this mic? I can get a pair of new MXL 603s for $140. including shockmounts.

Please do that for me and try to listen to Boyce Avenue's and Tyler Ward's acoustic recordings. That EXACTLY the sound I want to get out of my guitar!! It's really important for me.
I don't own a bank, and afforded only aroung $100 for a mic. Therefore, after I buy one there aren't going to be any regrets 'cause I won't be able to afford another one.

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. Where can I read about what I'm supposed to look at when choosing a microphone for acoustic? There are so many technical parameters such as Diaphragm, Capsule Size, Frequency Response, Sensitivity, Output Impedance, Equivalent noise, and so on...
 
YuvalAS,

Both the 990 and the 603 have a 22 mm capsule. They are both MDCs. My guess is the 603 will sound very similar to your 990.

I have used 603s for recording acoustic guitars because of many recommendations on this bbs. They did very well, indeed.

But the mic I love for acoustic guitar is a dynamic omni, Realistic 1070 series, made by Shure for Radio Shack. I also like the Naiant's for acoustic instruments, they are SDC omnis. For a step up pricewise I like the Audio Technica Pro 37 or Pro 37r, SDC Cardiods, great as overheads as well as acoustic instruments.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
Hey,
I'm just getting more and more confused as you suggest more and more models of mics.
I think that the best we can do is that I'll post some videos of Boyce Avenue's songs/covers so you can see which they use. Of course I'm posting only the models whose sounds I like, and I didn't recognize. I tried not to post the same mic twice (some mics repeats in more than video). The videos were captured in HD quality, and the mics are seen clearly enough for recognition. By the way, I DID try to look at catalog's pictures such as musician's friends and zzounds - but can't recognize... I know it's not so easy work, and will REALLY appreciate your help.
I'm sure that if I have a variety of models that they've been using for the last year I'll be able to find one which matches my budget.

So here it is:

So that's it... A few other mics that I could recognize easily is the Blue Dragonfly and the Earthworks M30. But still too expensive.. I also noticed that they used the Shure Beta 58A for vocals in almost all of their recordings... Maybe in the future... :)
And I DID notice that they sometimes combine the guitar's pickup sound - Taylor Expression System. But not only...

So I'll be really greatful and will appreciate your help in recognition these mics. I really want to thank you - I did my first step to the recording's world using this forum and bought my first gears with your help, and have been really satisfied...!
 
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YuvalAS remember that a video is staged and may not reflect what was truly do in the studio!

They are 99% of the time two different things. ;)
 
moresound said:
YuvalAS remember that a video is staged and may not reflect what was truly do in the studio!

They are 99% of the time two different things. ;)
Click to expand...

Well, you're most of the time right.
However, in this case I'm almost sure that the recorded video belongs with the actual track.
I'll tell you why: 1. When they say "live" it's gotta be live, isn't it? 2. I heard a mistake on playing the guitar's tabs on Boyce Avenue's Broken Angel - and I could see the mistake's done in the video. Therefore, I'm now more than sure it's the original track.
I think that the recording on the video also include the actual mic, also because they wouldn't buy so many different variety of mics just to let others look at it. Some of them aren't that cheap so they'd do such a thing..
What do you think?

By the way, could you recognize any of the 4 mics that appers in the videos I posted on my previous message?

Thanks again..!

P.S. If you still think that they didn't use the actucal mics used in the studio in the video, then now after you heard the sound that I'm trying to get - which mic would you pick up? It's really important for me to get a similar sounding recording.. That's the style I like...
Based on my budget, including used mics that are acceptable let's say top budget $150-$170, which one can I get?
 
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Here is what I can see .... the first of the videos are using a Beta 56a, second batch looks like a PG81 but can't tell for shure, and the last is an AKG c451b. All combined with the 1/4 out from the guitar and you can see the settings on the guitar.
 
Honestly I think you'll be happy with a pair of 603s or 604s. I fully agree by themselves they won't give the guitar sound in the videos...because it's a pickup/mic mix (with lots of compression). You can do that too with the right guitar though...

Les
L M Watts Technology
 
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