Cheapish mics BETTER then MXL603s or Oktava 219, for overheads?

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c_corie

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I have a set of both, and they're alright....but since i'm only using 4 mics on the kit, they both have drawbacks.

1. MXL603s thin sounding, good clarity, but still sounds a little cheap and small.

2. Oktava 219's DARK, a little muddy, doesn't seem to mix well with the the SM57 on snare.

I guess with 4 mics your never gonna get that clear polished, big sound? The problem is i can get that sound, but i have to cut out all the low for the overheads and then i get no toms, maybe my room acoustics just blow.

But anyway is there a reasonably priced pair of mics that are way better then what i have?
 
Oktava MK-012 mics work well for overheads, IMHO.
 
but do you think either of those would be a reasonable step up for the cost? Or should i just wait and save and get something really good some day?
 
c_corie said:
I have a set of both, and they're alright....but since i'm only using 4 mics on the kit, they both have drawbacks.

1. MXL603s thin sounding, good clarity, but still sounds a little cheap and small.

2. Oktava 219's DARK, a little muddy, doesn't seem to mix well with the the SM57 on snare.

I guess with 4 mics your never gonna get that clear polished, big sound? The problem is i can get that sound, but i have to cut out all the low for the overheads and then i get no toms, maybe my room acoustics just blow.

But anyway is there a reasonably priced pair of mics that are way better then what i have?
Click to expand...

The number of mics is not going to prevent you from getting a good sound. It will depend on the kind of sound you want, but you can certainly get great drums with a couple of mics.

No mic will make a weak or poorly-tuned drum kit sound really good. Cheap cymbals sound awful. Guys I play with and record use vintage pre-Zildian K's and hand-made Italian cymbals costing a grand or two each for a reason.

I'm just saying that it may not be your mics...

But...I can see where the Oktavas are giving you a dark or muddy sound. They can do that. I had a pair of 319's and I sold them. I still have several MK012's and they are better.

What kind of mic preamps are you using? That might be adding to the muddiness.

You could send the 219's to be modded. That should improve clarity.

Just some ideas...:)
 
Audio Technica Pro37

c_corie,

The Pro 37r is the same mic. These are outstanding SDC mics for drum overheads and acoustic guitar. You can get them used for under $100 each if you shop carefully.

That said I have a 603 I was using as an over the shoulder mic when recording acoustic guitar instrumentals. When I got my Pro 37r I started using it. It was just a little bit better in the detail and nuance at the high end. But not a lot better because the 603 mics don't suck.

So maybe an M-Audio DMP3 preamp would be a better place to put your money. I don't know what you're using now but I plug everything through my DMP2 preamps when I can. This makes a big difference in high end clarity.

Do the drums sound really good in the room and not so good on the recordings? Because if they don't sound really good in the room it will be difficult to make them sound great in the recordings. Extra rugs, blankets, strategically placed gobos can really make a difference.

Mic placement is also really important. A pair of cardiods can work well on an x-y bar. Also recommended is the recorderman method. A quick search should find this.

Ok, now for a really bizarre note. On live sound outdoors I've been using an Audio Technica ATM25 placed in front of the kick about a foot off the ground and 6-8 inches from the head. We run a small PA with usually just the vocals and this kick mic. The weird thing is that the single mic, in front of the kick, amplifies the whole kit, cymbals, snares, toms and all. Who'd a thought it?

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
leddy said:
You could send the 219's to be modded. That should improve clarity.
Click to expand...

They'll still be LDCs. Usually smeared transients are not a win when miking drums.... That's pretty fundamental to the capsule and won't be fixed by any mod.

The lack of bass in the 603 are also caused by capsule design flaws.

The MK-012 has much flatter response, which is mainly what you need for kit overheads. The Naiant mics mentioned would also be reasonable, with the caveat that they are omni, so some miking configurations are not particularly useful/practical (X/Y miking, for example).
 
You can hear samples of the LDC MK-219, MK-105 and medium diaphragm MK-011 here.

The '011 is actually quite close in diaphragm size to the MK-012 (sorry, no '012 audio in the test above). The test shows how good the '219 can sound as OH - not as bright and quick as the transformerless '105 but a fine OH sound for folks who like that approach.
 
Yea my drums sound pretty good, what i'm going for most of the time is a very "311" drum sound. So lots of snare and kick, i suppose.

If you're familiar with it, their CD "Sound System" has great clear, natural sounding drums, but I have a feeling they used lots of mics on the kit, I read something saying they used 2 mics on the snare alone, and i know thats not really uncommon but with 4 mics overall i don't know how close i can get.

Oh and Mr.Joly i listen to the clip with 219 as overheads, they sound good, and mine sound very close too that, and while i like how they sound "thick" that lack of high just isn't the sound im going for.

ALSO for PREAMPS, i'm using the Behringer T1953, and the two preamps in my Digi 001.
 
hairylarry said:
The Pro 37r is the same mic. These are outstanding SDC mics for drum overheads and acoustic guitar. You can get them used for under $100 each if you shop carefully.
Click to expand...

Same mic as what? Definitely not the same mic as the Oktava, if that's what you meant....
 
c_corie said:
ALSO for PREAMPS, i'm using the Behringer T1953, and the two preamps in my Digi 001.
Click to expand...

There is your biggest problem. Even with good mic, they will still sound muddy and dull with Behringer mic pres. I used to not think that mic pres were not as big of deal until I down graded to a Behringer mix and started using their mic pres. I found that track recorded with them were VERY hard to mix and sound good. It wasn't until I had a previous client come in and complain her vocals did not sound as good as it had before even though we used the same mic. I went back to my older projects and the difference was day and night. I am now a firm believer that having great mic pres is critical to getting a great sound. True there are other things (the usual suspects) that factor in, but after all other things were constant, the change in mic pres was astonishing.

IMHO, one of the best sounding low cost mic pres is the Symetirx SX202.
 
dgatwood said:
The Naiant mics mentioned would also be reasonable, with the caveat that they are omni, so some miking configurations are not particularly useful/practical (X/Y miking, for example).
Click to expand...

Jeklin(sp?) Disc!

:)
 
Slowjett said:
Jeklin(sp?) Disc!

:)
Click to expand...
Yep. Although I think it's Jecklin. I use a pillow in between 2 omni's to record my band practices. Works awesome, actually - for about $4 in parts, a couple of omni capsules with the Linkwitz mod, a stiff round pillow, battery box, minidisc.

Going to make something a bit better in the future (like a real disc for starters haha and ditching the minidisc for a laptop) but it's completely useful in ghetto mode for what I want (portable cheap band practice recordings).

I could totally see it working for drum rooms.

Check it out. /end threadjack
 
Slowjett said:
Jeklin(sp?) Disc!

:)
Click to expand...

Jecklin disc recording is semi-coincident pair miking, but it isn't technically X/Y, just to be pedantic.... :)

And by semi-coincident, I of course mean a binaural pair, but I couldn't think of the word....
 
I think the behringer pre is almost as good as the Digidesign pres, and better then the M-Audio Audio Buddies, I was using. Is there any NEW/cheaper? preamp that will help more so then mics? I don't really have a problem buying stuff used, but i'd like to be able to return it if I don't really see enough of an improvement. (Like say my room sucks, and it sucks harder with better preamps, or maybe I realize i should save up and get a "really nice" preamp.)
 
c_corie said:
I think the behringer pre is almost as good as the Digidesign pres, and better then the M-Audio Audio Buddies, I was using. Is there any NEW/cheaper? preamp that will help more so then mics? I don't really have a problem buying stuff used, but i'd like to be able to return it if I don't really see enough of an improvement. (Like say my room sucks, and it sucks harder with better preamps, or maybe I realize i should save up and get a "really nice" preamp.)
Click to expand...

Saving up for a better quality pre amp is a good idea. Do as much research as you can before buying. This is a great forum to ask questions as well as GearSlutz. The search feature will be your best friend. If you are in a city where you can test them out before buying, I would suggest doing that too.
 
thanks for all the help and suggestions....I live in CT so all i have is a Sam Ash and too many guitar centers, haha. I do have one more question reguarding Mics though....I found that website studioauditions.com, where they do the mic comparisions.

I heard the MXL 603 that i have, and they sound....like the ones i have "cheap" sounding in the mids and bright. and the Oktava 219s sounded dark and boxy and sort of....warm but dull. BUT, the point being....those JoeMeek JM27s sounded REALLY good from the clips. Are they new or are they discontiuned as almost no one seems to carry them? Any idea if for around $150 these are any good?
 
AT Pro37 and Pro37r

dgatwood said:
Same mic as what? Definitely not the same mic as the Oktava, if that's what you meant....
Click to expand...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. The Pro37 and the Pro37r are the same mic. The Pro37r is the older model and I guess when it got popular they renamed it without the r.

Usually a letter is added to denote a later model but in this case the Pro37 is the later model. But it is the later model of the same mic. No spec change. Just a name change.

I can't compare them to expensive mics since I don't have any but for high end detail and fast transients these mics are great.

I definitely can't compare them to the Oktava mc012 mics since I don't have any. I wish I did but I haven't been able to afford them.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
omnis

dgatwood said:
Jecklin disc recording is semi-coincident pair miking, but it isn't technically X/Y, just to be pedantic.... :)

And by semi-coincident, I of course mean a binaural pair, but I couldn't think of the word....
Click to expand...

I love omnis and I love my Jecklin Disc which I made myself cheap.

Omnis are also excellent in a spaced pair configuration and they work with the recordeman method as do cardiods.

x/y stereo requires cardiods. Omnis in x/y are essentially mono.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
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