Cheap Chinese L-D condenser mic choices?

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Alan has said a number of times that the U87 and C1 don't sound exactly the same, something I can attest to having done a "shootout" my self 2 1/2 years ago.

I would have to say they are quite similar but there are differences particularly as Ted said in the "airyness" that the C1 exhibits. I would imagine that depending on the sound source and the environment surrounding the mics that the differences could at times be hard to pick.

:cool:
 
Han said:
DJL, again you play with fire. You are insinuating that PMI took a U87 and searched for a C1 that sounded very much alike and brought them to the show, in order to let people know that an inexpensive mic sounds like an expensive Neumann. And you say they did this on purpose.

Well, Alan will not like this, although I must admit that I haven't seen Neumanns in AKG stands, nor have I seen DPA's in Schoeps stands, or XX mics in YY stands on the shows.
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Yes, I think that is what they did... but they may have searched for both the right C1 and U87... this really is the only thing (besides getting really lucky picking the two mics, or Ted can't hear) that would explain why Ted thought the C1 and U87 sounded the same at the NAMM show. Don't misunderstand me... I'm not saying PMI did anything wrong, there is no law against hand picking mics for a NAMM show demo that I know of.

This would also explain why they had a U87 setup side-by-side with their C1 at the NAMM show... it was so you could listen to the two mics and hear that they sounded the same... no?
 
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Some things will never change.....

I thought DJL and Alan buried the hatchet...did something change, or is DJL off his medicine again? I've been away for the board for a week or so...
 
DJL said:
...This would also explain why they had a U87 setup side-by-side with their C1 at the NAMM show... it was so you could listen to the two mics and hear that they sounded the same... no?
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Well. like I said, last year they did not sound the same. I compared them on at least 4 different occasions over a period of 2 days and the differences were always the same. And also, like I said, Alan was in agreement with my opinions. I doubt the "inconsistent" theory because to me, the C1 at the show sounded just like my C1 or any other C1 I’ve heard.

My point is, if Ted has one of the early mics, Alan could have changed it since then to make it brighter. Of course, there’s no law against that, either. ;)
 
Ted Perlman said:
[I have the following...Would any of the Studio Project mics add to my bulging middle of the road mic stable]

Yes - three of them. The T3 because you don't have any C-12 type tube mics. The C1 because you need that U87 sound. And the B3 for recording acoustic guitars
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So what if he doesn't have a C-12 type tube mic? Has this somehow become a defacto requirement for an amateur / hobbyist musician?

And why does he need "that U87" sound?

And don't you think out of that list he posted that he might have something amongst that group he could use on an accoustic guitar?

Jesus, dude. Did you see that list? Do you really think a hobbyist needs any more mics? :D I respect your work and all, and I'm a big fan. But your posts are sounding a little . . . I don't know.

This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre by the moment. I can't believe that I of all people am saying this :D . . . but some of you guys sound like you could use a little break from this stuff. Maybe take a small trip or something. Relax, unwind, etc. etc.
 
[And why does he "need" that U87 sound?]

Because he wants to make that "U87 money".
 
[Ted – Were your C1s some of the earliest ones? Do they have the attenuation and LF roll-off switches?]

Yes - they are all early models. There are no switches on any of my C1's.
 
Ted Perlman said:
[And why does he "need" that U87 sound?]

Because he wants to make that "U87 money".
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Hey Ted . . . you ever seen that Blue Oyster Colt Sat. Night Live skit with Christopher Walken?

Somehow, I get the feeling that you're asking me for more cowbell.
 
Flatpicker said:
Well. like I said, last year they did not sound the same. I compared them on at least 4 different occasions over a period of 2 days and the differences were always the same. And also, like I said, Alan was in agreement with my opinions. I doubt the "inconsistent" theory because to me, the C1 at the show sounded just like my C1 or any other C1 I’ve heard.

My point is, if Ted has one of the early mics, Alan could have changed it since then to make it brighter. Of course, there’s no law against that, either. ;)
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Humm, that is interesting... but then why did PMI have a U87 setup side-by-side with a C1 at the show, and why didn't PMI rebuke Ted's statement about the U87 and C1 being the same instead of reposting it on their website if the two mics that Ted heard didn't sound the same? You don't think Ted was/is on the payroll do you?

PS... my C1 didn't sound like my U87 either.
 
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Ted, I deeply regret that it was my remarks that brought you here, and now you're running the gauntlet that many of us have endured here. It's a losing battle that you can never hope to win here. The same people have brought up these same points over and over in the last few years.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
The same people have brought up these same points over and over in the last few years.
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Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Yeah, it's dejà vu all over again.

Or maybe it's "DJ fou and chessrock too."

Ted, Robb (if you're still around) - these are a couple of nutjobs whose delusion is that they're spam cops, protecting the rest of us innocents from the evil commercial influences that come here to persuade us to buy their products. We try to keep them in their padded cells down at the server, but they occasionally escape and wreak havoc on a thread here and there.

Just ignore.
 
Was DJL really saying anything out of place this time? I don't know the particulars of this exhibition but if I was wanting to show a mic that was very similar to a U87 then of course I'd go through all the ones I had to try and find the closest one. To not do so would be a bit foolish.

Thing is, I don't know what comparisons really were made between these mics. It's obvious anyway that the C1 is an excellent buy for the money, and I for one would be willing to practice some subtractive top end EQing as a sacrifice for owning one :)
 
Thanks Harvey and Ted. I appreciate your opinions and advice.
 
chessrock said:
So what if he doesn't have a C-12 type tube mic? Has this somehow become a defacto requirement for an amateur / hobbyist musician?

And why does he need "that U87" sound?

And don't you think out of that list he posted that he might have something amongst that group he could use on an accoustic guitar?

Jesus, dude. Did you see that list? Do you really think a hobbyist needs any more mics? :D I respect your work and all, and I'm a big fan. But your posts are sounding a little . . . I don't know.

This thread just keeps getting more and more bizarre by the moment. I can't believe that I of all people am saying this :D . . . but some of you guys sound like you could use a little break from this stuff. Maybe take a small trip or something. Relax, unwind, etc. etc.
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You know, we finally get someone who matters on this board, and you start all over again. It didn't take long for you to come around to your old ways.
BEFORE you insult, and chase off a great talent like Ted, why don't you do something that gives YOU credibility?
Think about it........................
 
DJL said:
Here's another thought... maybe the U87 and C1 that Ted heard at that NAMM show DID sound exactly the same - no difference... and maybe all Studio Products C1's don't sound exactly the same. Maybe the C1 and U87 that were used at that NAMM show were hand picked and use for that demo at the NAMM show because they sounded the same? Think about it... what would be the purpose of having a C1 and U87 side by side at the NAMM show if they didn't sound the same? PMI knew that if people thought the C1 sounded like a U87 they would sell more C1's.
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This is a very good observation. There is a U87 and a C1 together.
Ted Perlman tries both and comes to the conclusion that to HIS ears, they sound the same.

Alan says they don't sound the same.
So, what is the point of having a U87 next to it to compare?

I have to say that for this instance, DJL has an extremely valid point. Maybe the C1 at the trade show had more than a few "modifications"
Maybe not, maybe just luck.
 
You are making a serious accusation without anything more than your little mind making assumptions. You were not there.... You did not participate....Just stay out of it and shut up!
 
So, here it all goes again. We come full circle and have to get back to the old shit.

If I may, let me say this. The C1 and U87 are stock mics. I have had many C1's on the demo rack since the inception of the SP mics. Karl Winkler from Neumann came to our booth and brought his own U87 and Neumann engineer to our booth thinking we did something to it, because Karl did our demo as well and was surprised. So upon his request, we put his U87 up, he listened to it and the C1, unplugged his U87 and walked away. He knew we did nothing to the C1 because we opened it for him to prove we did not infringe on his designs, and we did nothing to the U87. I challenge anyone at any show, to bring any tech to try and find any mods, bring any Neumann personal, or bring your own U87 and or C1, and we will put it on the rack.

First of all, you guys are thinking the U87 is some sort of great mic. You always have to eq the thing to get it to sound any good. The C1 has many similar qualities of a U87, but I think they are not identical...but who cares? I put the U87 up because all the other inexpensive mic companies are afraid to do so! I am happy to have the C1 next to a U87. It hangs quite nicely with it and shows the value the C1 and other SP mics offer. I never said they are the same or exact. People hear differently. Many people think they are very much alike. Who am I, and who are you to tell them what they hear.

There are a few people here who work with, or have worked with the big boys. There are some members that are seriously looking to learn and gain more insight to the craft of recording. Then, there are some who are here to do nothing more than disrupt and cause trouble.

Robb Howell and Ted Perlman are big boys. They earn their living by making music with top professionals. The majority of you don't. Some of you know more than others, some know nothing. Some I don't like, but do have some knowledge of use and application to pass on to you guys. No it is not DJL!

To keep a Ted Perlman or a Robb Howell here is like winning the lottery, but these guys are always driven off leaving the real working knowledge away from these boards. If this is what you all want because you think they or I am Spamming, then fine. I suggest you all think about it first. Because if you are here to learn, you need to learn from people who make hit records for a living, and not from some loud mouth wanna bees who don't know shit.

Now there are a bunch of you guys that I like and I am not aiming this at you, but don't you think it is time for this shit to stop? Ask questions and verify who some of these people are and learn from them. Why do you wish to chase them away. I believe Robb loves the SE Mic...So what, Ted likes SP and ADK, Harvey likes Marshall's, I like girls and DJL likes barn animals...

If Ted Perlman uses our mics and in his opinion the C1 sounds the same as a U87, or if Robb thinks the SE sounds as good as a C12 and they say this here while making hits and working with top pros with these mics...who the fuck are we to question that?

Many of you may think a mic they use may be bright or dark, so what, that is you're opinion. If that is the case, don't use the fucking mic they do and use what your ears tell you you like. Until you can post the Bio of hits Ted has done, and Robb has done, then lighten the fuck up and learn. Use a different mic if you want to, but learn technique from these guys...They know better than you. Don't drive them away.

Don't listen to the crap coming out of DJL fingers. The guy is here to cause trouble. I swear, he does not know shit from shineola and starts all kinds of accusations for fun. I am not going to rant on DJL so we can all start more wars. I know what he is, but you all need to think about what you want this group to be.

I deny any accusations that DJL or acorec has suggested, and I offer $100,000.00 if any of you can prove that we rig or mod any mic we display at trade shows. Now why don't you all go back to your day jobs and do your homework at night.

If I offended anyone here with my comments other than DJL, I am sorry.....
 
noisedude said:
I don't know the particulars of this exhibition but if I was wanting to show a mic that was very similar to a U87 then of course I'd go through all the ones I had to try and find the closest one.
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That's what I would have done also.
 
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