Cha La Head Cha La - Glam rock ft. VHS and Greg_L

  • Thread starter Thread starter VomitHatSteve
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Robus said:
I hear the timing issues other are mentioning. I do think you'll want to sort those out to be truly happy with the song. Apart from that, something that jumps out for me is that the lead vocal doesn't sit comfortably in the mix. There are places where it is too low or being masked by other instruments (guitars chiefly). Elsewhere it sounds way out front.
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Yes, this is what I'm noticing. They're really hesitant pretty much everywhere except during the big "CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" in the chorus.. then that line has all these stacked harmonies.. makes it leap out a little unnaturally.. The rest of the vocal performance needs that same confidence.
 
Bubba po said:
I have to echo pretty much everything that's been said so far. As a kid in the 70s I was majorly into glam rock and the style cues of that genre are very distinctive; big, dry, fat, pumping drums, sometimes with a slight slapback delay. Tight, solid rhythm guitar and bass parts. Rock solid harmonies layered right into the falsetto ranges (often vari-speeded to get the extreme high notes, back in the day). Tight, short room and plate reverbs (if any). Single slapback delays were more common.
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Dry drums? Really? Huh.

BroKen_H said:
The intro sounds brilliant. The bass tone is nice. Sounds fairly solid with the drums.
Gotta say, the timing issues still show up at times on mix 9.
The claps sound muffled and small.
The main line (Cha La Head...) vocals (as was mentioned) could use a few more layers (up) of backup. That line seems done with passion and presence and pushes really well. But it's a bit loud at that line. More BG, less primary might be better... If you could get the rest of the vocals at the Cha La level (performance not volume) it would be amazing.
The leads sound just a touch flat and could use some movement (a few more notes per beat on a few beats wouldn't hurt). I'd mention the tone, but they sounded great on the monitors, just not in the cans.
Not sure if it's just my ears. Didn't listen to other mixes, so this may be off: The drums sound pretty good, but like they're in another space. Crashes are kind of, I want to say choked, but not like they're being cut off suddenly, like they're there, but shortened in length and lacking something, maybe like they were hi-passed to aggressively. Don't know. Not good at mixing drums, so my advice is probably shite...just know what I'm hearing.
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I've got a transient controller on the main kit bus. That's probably what's making the cymbal tail seem to disappear.
I think there are... at least 4 harmony parts (each doubled) on the "cha la"s. I can try making them a touch louder relative to the lead vox tho.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Dry drums? Really? Huh.
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Yeah. Weird, eh? I can't listen to anything after mix 7 at the moment. I have a garbage internet connection here in Portugal - it takes a minute to d/load 1Mb. I'll catch up with this in a couple of days.
 
listened to #9. yeah i immediately noticed timing issues and checked here right away to see if anyone else mentioned it. it sounds like what Greg said way earlier about the tracks not lining up. and then someone else said it seems like everything is trying to find the groove...and i agree. i don't know dude, i'd check over how the tracks line up one more time. wouldn't hurt. the rhythm is struggling a little on its own, and then the vocal adds another layer that isn't lining up properly...and my brain is trying to figure out where the beat actually is.

beyond that...sounds really good. lots of verb, but that's the style you're going for. vocals are slightly separated like they're added to an existing track rather than mixed into this one. bass tones very good.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Dry drums? Really? Huh.
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It depends whether you are talking about Glam as in Poison, or Glam as in T-Rex or New York Dolls. 70's Glam or 80's Glam.

The drums and guitar on this are more 80's glam. The reverb in this context makes sense.
 
Farview said:
It depends whether you are talking about Glam as in Poison, or Glam as in T-Rex or New York Dolls. 70's Glam or 80's Glam.

The drums and guitar on this are more 80's glam. The reverb in this context makes sense.
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Ah. That would make sense. I think we're trying to sound like what the genre would be if grunge hadn't killed it?

vocals are slightly separated like they're added to an existing track rather than mixed into this one.
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Hmmm... Our vocalist insisted that his voice should be doubled pretty much at all times and not hard-panned. (You wouldn't believe how hard it was to get it to sound like he wasn't in a tin can). I'll double check it again tho.

the rhythm is struggling a little on its own, and then the vocal adds another layer that isn't lining up properly...and my brain is trying to figure out where the beat actually is.
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Is there some confusion over the fact that that this was originally a prog song rather than glam? I mean, there's a lot of weird pushes, half measures, and what not.
I can hear some sloppiness when the guitars are playing straight 8ths. But all the vocals and the chorus timing are spot on where we intended them.
 
Yup Bubba po, the others are Hair/Spandex/Prettyboy/LA light versions of metal for the LAYDIES. Nothing as fully pop with rocks in like Glam.
 
In the 80's they were calling it glam. The hair metal name came along some time in the 90's.
 
It's interesting because almost everything sounds good but the synergy isn't there. I say almost because the clapping is pretty bad. I had to listen closely, at first I thought I was hearing real bad clipping.

I like the wash of the guitars. Good tones, good playing.

Something about the bass doesn't sound smooth. In particular at :44, I can hear it vibrating or something.

The vocals sound a bit distant relative to the mix even though vocals are inherently a lead. I feel like a higher gain, or singing closer to the mic - something is needed to give it more presence.
 
Thanks, IBB.
Yeah. Claps are hard. It's a weird (and honestly, pretty cheesy) sample, but our vocalist said he liked it.
Bass gets a weird tone when I get below low D


Mix 10 is up: Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick
The transient controller is removed from the drum bus to let the cymbals ring out more.
The rhythm guitars "duck" the vocals more than before, and I turned them up to hopefully sit the vox better.
The lead vox also now duck the BGvox when they get really loud to emphasize the "gang chorus" effect. (Certain BGVox are also turned up (including the falsetto per Bubba Po's suggestion :D ))
 
I just listened to mix 10 only.
"let the cymbals ring out more." - really? almost can't here them at all. I can hear the BG vox during the 'cha la' parts, but overall the vocals are too loud at that point. I think I hear the timing issue at times between the drums and the bass, like either the bass is leading or following the beat.
 
mjbphotos said:
I just listened to mix 10 only.
"let the cymbals ring out more." - really? almost can't here them at all.
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Not much more :D
I can hear the BG vox during the 'cha la' parts, but overall the vocals are too loud at that point. I think I hear the timing issue at times between the drums and the bass, like either the bass is leading or following the beat.
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All vocals including leads too loud on the chorus?
 
Ok. 12 mix Cha La Head Cha La | Lipstick
Tried re-tracking vocals to be more enthusiastic, but it sounded like hot garbage and we threw it out (mix 11)

Added an exciter to the lead vocal bus.
Turned up the OHs to get more cymbal ring.
Minor tweaks to Vox and guitar levels
 
The instrumental sounds just like the original song, but the vocals are really weird. I dont think it was poorly recorded, maybe its the performance that I just cant find exciting.

The drums sound like they were programed. I absolutely hate this gated reverb snare sound. But I guess you guys went for that vibe.
 
Thanks, Cmolena
CMolena said:
The instrumental sounds just like the original song, but the vocals are really weird. I dont think it was poorly recorded, maybe its the performance that I just cant find exciting.
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The dude's not a super-strong singer, so we ended up going for a more pitch-accurate (if less enthusiastic performance)

The drums sound like they were programed. I absolutely hate this gated reverb snare sound. But I guess you guys went for that vibe.
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Programmed? Weird.
It isn't actually a gated reverb, it just a reverb on the isolated snare channel. I see what you're saying tho.
 
yeahm it sounds too dead on the click or something. But that is really subjective...I know Greg likes his drums really spot on. I like a little bit of a slack drum feel, u know?

but the mix isnt bad at all
 
Hey VHS, I listened to a few earlier versions of this, but didn't get chance to comment. Just listening to mix 12 now and although I haven't gone back to A/B with the earlier versions, I think it's sounding a lot better than when I first heard it.

The lead vocal remains the biggest area that sounds off to me. I know you say the singer's not the best, but I don't think the lyrics are really helping him - it's like there are sections where there are too many words to fit into the space or where the words themselves don't quite fit the meter of the melody. I appreciate you may not want to to go back that far to revisit at this point, but I think that's a big culprit behind the timing issues.
 
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