Capacitor dynamite

  • Thread starter Thread starter Muckelroy
  • Start date Start date
M

Muckelroy

Member
I recently acquired an old Teac A-4010S quarter-track, and looks solid as a rock. I cleaned it up, (it had been in storage for quite some time.) got all the junk out of the innards, needs new belts, but I powered it on to see if it...powered on.

Looked good, but a polar capacitor blew a few minutes after it was powered up. It wouldn't cost too much to replace the cap, and get new belts, but quick question:

Why do caps explode? If I replace the cap w/ an identical new one, will that fix the problem, or will it explode again later on?
It was a paper/oil/foil cap, so do those types of polar caps have a tendency to "break down" and randomly explode when they get old? Just curious if replacing the cap will fix it for good.

thanks!

-Callie Muckelroy-
 
Muckelroy said:
Why do caps explode? If I replace the cap w/ an identical new one, will that fix the problem, or will it explode again later on?


Different caps have different voltages they can handle. If exceeded, they can blowup.

So if it was just a freak accident where it got too much voltage and popped, then you could replace it with the same thing, but if it was already replaced (but replaced wrong) then that won't fix the problem.


Here is an excellent link to wtf a capacitor does and how it does it.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/caps/caps.html
 
Yeah, It's funny that I'm doing this at this time -- It just so happens that in the electronics class I'm in, we're studying capacitors this week. So I'm actually already familiar with the information in that link, as of, about 3 hours ago. ha. But that's that's a good supplument.

I'm certain that it wasn't replaced incorrectly. I highly doubt this machine has ever been taken apart before I dug around in it, so how could the cap have gotten too much voltage?

Obviously, this thing hadn't been powered on for a good 15 years before I powered it on, so I'm sure that's the basic reason, but is this a common problem? random voltages swimming around in old electronics that randomly cause things to blow up?
 
Muckelroy said:
in the electronics class I'm in


Stop right there.

Jackpot!

Take it to class and let the intructor show you how to debug a "real world issue". Use that phrase to...if he is hesitant...lol

;)
 
Electronics "rot" if not used. Especially capacitors. I would guess it just had gone bad in storage. But taking it to class seems to be a great idea. ;)
 
Im not completly sure but caps will collect moisture or will dry up when not used for a long time.
Some times electronics that are old and have been stored for along time are warmed up gradually with a variac. You turn the voltage up a little at a time so things can dry out and settle in.
 
Old caps are the bane of the vintage equipment world. They are a very common point of failure in otherwise perfectly working machines. They dry out and short. Unfortunately they sometimes take out other components in the process. Chances are though, you can replace that cap and all will be well. Billowing transformer smoke is the best indication that all is not well. :D

-Tim
 
I would, but.....

I would take it to class, but it's a VERY, VERY BASIC course. I'll ask her if it's at all applicable, but wow. Perhaps later on in the year when we know a bit more about circuits, I can lug this behemoth in there, and we can put on our safetey goggles, have a fire extinguisher nearby, and make sure all is well with this thing as we replace the cap.

I'm thinkin..............no.

but I will tell her about it nonetheless. :D

And now...........some photos of the "Good Guys" at ATR service. http://www.atrservice.com/gallery/category.php?section_id=9
 
Do caps go bad from LACK of use or just generally ?

Thanks,

Daniel
 

Attachments

  • tn__Digital%20Sucks.webp
    tn__Digital%20Sucks.webp
    12.2 KB · Views: 100
i don't know....

I think caps go bad as a combination of both lack of use, and age. It would be my guess that any cap would eventually go out over time, as the di-electric material breaks down. (especially in oil-soaked paper dielectrics, like in my case). Since I'm here, and I have nothing better to do, lemme share what I have learned this week about capacitors. :D

All capacitors are, is two conducting plates, with a di-electric material in between them (whether that non-conducting di-electric material is air, water, paper, oil-soaked paper, porcelain, wax, you name it.)

When a capacitor is neutral, there's equal amounts of positive and negative charges on both conducting plates. Just like you and I, just like a doorknob, just like anything that has no electrical current going through it.

But, when an electrical current is applied to it, nameley, a negative current to one plate, and a positive current to the other plate (we're talking DC here,) something magical happens.

The electrons (negativeley charged particles) on the positiveley charged plate, all travel AROUND the circuit, to the other plate, to the negativeley charged plate. Keep in mind that NO ELECTRONS travel through the dielectric material in between. If electrons DO start leaking through the dielectric, the capacitor is said to have broken down, and it can blow up, like mine did. Loads of fun ensue.

All right, so we got electrons moving around, from one plate to the other. Essentially what the cap is doing during this process is CHARGING UP. Once all electrons have moved, the negative plate will have ALL negative charge, and the positive plate will have ALL positive charge.

But what the crap is the dielectric for, you ask? Well, here we go.

The dielectric material is made of atoms, all of which have negativeley-charged electrons rotating around a nucleus. When the cap charges up completeley, this causes the negativeley-charged electrons of the di-electric to be ATTRACTED HEAVILY to the positiveley-charged plate. (opposites attract, remember?) ANd they more or less LEAN in that direction. Now, sometimes, as I said, if TOO MUCH CURRENT goes through the cap, then these electrons in the dielectric are pulled away from their nuclei, and are strained through the positive plate, thus allowing LOTS AND LOTS of electrons to continuously flow through the dielectric, causing leakage of current, and di-electric breakdown, and explosion.............. you know the drill.

ALL RIGHT. PERFECT WORLD. Our functioning, stable cap is charged up completeley. So if you disconnect the cap from the current source, and if the positive and negative sides of the cap are not touching, the cap HOLDS IT'S CHARGE, much like a miniature battery. Until you short the two ends together - until the positive and negative somehow form a circuit to each other, the capacitor does not DISCHARGE. But once you DO connect the positive and negative ends together, it DOES discharge. --- and this is how that works:

The electrons in the di-electric material are kind of spring-loaded, like a pulled-back string on a drawn bow, waiting to shoot an arrow. When the positive and negative sides of the cap form a circuit somehow, these electrons begin rotating their nucleus normally again, and in the process, SHOOT the accumulated electrons on the negative plate, back to the positive plate. (so the accumulated electrons on the negative plate can be thought of as the ARROWS which are shot.) And so, the cap discharges, and these electrons travel back through the circuit, to the positive plate, until both plates have a balanced number of negative and positiveley charged particles. The cap has now fully DISCHARGED.


After this little schpeal, it's pretty easy for me to believe that since this reel to reel of mine has been in storage for the past 15-20 years, the oil inside that cap probably leaked its way down to the bottom of the cap, causing the paper in the top part of the cap to be nearly completeley dry, making it MUCH easier for electrons to flow through the paper when the cap charged up, causing a continuous feed-back of charge, that never ends, and keeps getting bigger, and bigger, until it blows up. (See? feedback is bad no matter WHERE it's at!)

I would imagine that if the reel-to-reel HAD been used a bit more frequently, the electric field put on the oil and paper electrons would have helped HOLD the oil up, preventing the oil from leaking down to the bottom parts of the paper. Makes sense, anyway. If I'm completeley wrong in this, somebody let me know! ;)

-callie-
 
Muckelroy said:
I think caps go bad as a combination of both lack of use, and age. It would be my guess that any cap would eventually go out over time, as the di-electric material breaks down. (especially in oil-soaked paper dielectrics, like in my case). Since I'm here, and I have nothing better to do, lemme share what I have learned this week about capacitors. :D

EXCELLENT info! Thanks A LOT for sharing this and taking the time. Much appreciated!

~Daniel :)
 
Caps go bad for many reasons. I've seen the big filter caps in power supplies literally explode many, many times. And when they do they stink to high heaven. :eek:
 
Back
Top