Can't get a good tone. :(

[Ashlerrx]

Hey, I'm new here and just thought I'd try to find help for my problem.
Okay, so the thing is I have good gear. I have a Marshall JVM 210h, a UR824 interface and a SM57.
But I can't get a good tone for the life of me! It seems like I tried everything, mic position, changing my eq on my amp and switching rooms. But sadly, I still remain with crappy guitar tone.
So I was wondering if someone more knowledgeable will be able to help me! Maybe tell me something like "sounds like you have too much low/mid/high end" or "you need more/less reverb" stuff like that. I can't seem to get my tone tight, or less muddy if you will. Do I just need tighter playing, less/no reverb or change my guitar tone? I'm really frustrated with this, so please help. Hahahah

Here is a link to a riff of mine.
soundcloud com/pyramids-2/arrival-01

 

[AlecBeretz]

you aren't too far off

thats not horrible. you're getting close. also, what I'm about to tell you is based off of only my trial and error experience. other people may disagree.

First of all, is there a bass guitar in that mix? cause thats mixed pretty badly... its washing out everything else and its not distinct enough from the guitar. turn down its bass eq a little. then look at an eq graph of the guitars. at the range where the guitars are scooped, boost that frequency in the bass. have the bass live where the guitars dont.

second, despite you wanting a scooped sound for metal, the less mids you have the less powerful the sound will be, because the guitar is a mid-driven instrument. turn those mids up a little bit.

last, try using less gain. It will make your attack bigger and stronger.



if you want to start from square one, try this:

make your amps EQ totally flat, have the gain be about half way. Then put your microphone closer to the outer rim of the speaker, but point it in toward the speakers center. put it maybe an inch or two away from the cab.

if you have a large diaphragm dynamic microphone, use that. sm57's should work fine but large diaphragms can be nice.

from there, listen to your guitar with the drums and bass and start tweaking your sound to be more "metal" but don't use a metal tone from the get go. work towards it. after you hear your flat tone with the drums and the bass say "okay, maybe less mids, more treble" or more bass or whatever. just do as much as you can on the amp side before you edit anything. you'll find that bedroom metal guitar tone is NOT the same as recorded metal guitar tone. remember that the first metal guys just turned everything on their marshal stack up to 10 and it was BEASTLY. None of this heavy scooped stuff.

on the editing side, don't compress the guitars. distortion IS compression. so compression will just nuke any dynamics. often times I've found boosting the very high treble ranges, like 10k-15k can help clarify a guitar's tone. dont over-do it tho cause this is also buzz range.

If the guitar seems muddy, sometimes cutting out a little 300-500 hz can help. usually for me its 350-400 but thats not a surefire method.




so play around with that and see where it takes you. if you really want a better tone, get bigger strings and play harder, and use less gain. its all about the strong attack!

 

[AlecBeretz]

no reverb on rhythm guitars, by the way. it makes them wishy washy and you need them to be punchy.

 

[Greg_L]

thats not horrible. you're getting close. also, what I'm about to tell you is based off of only my trial and error experience. other people may disagree.

First of all, is there a bass guitar in that mix? cause thats mixed pretty badly... its washing out everything else and its not distinct enough from the guitar. turn down its bass eq a little. then look at an eq graph of the guitars. at the range where the guitars are scooped, boost that frequency in the bass. have the bass live where the guitars dont.

second, despite you wanting a scooped sound for metal, the less mids you have the less powerful the sound will be, because the guitar is a mid-driven instrument. turn those mids up a little bit.

last, try using less gain. It will make your attack bigger and stronger.



if you want to start from square one, try this:

make your amps EQ totally flat, have the gain be about half way. Then put your microphone closer to the outer rim of the speaker, but point it in toward the speakers center. put it maybe an inch or two away from the cab.

if you have a large diaphragm dynamic microphone, use that. sm57's should work fine but large diaphragms can be nice.

from there, listen to your guitar with the drums and bass and start tweaking your sound to be more "metal" but don't use a metal tone from the get go. work towards it. after you hear your flat tone with the drums and the bass say "okay, maybe less mids, more treble" or more bass or whatever. just do as much as you can on the amp side before you edit anything. you'll find that bedroom metal guitar tone is NOT the same as recorded metal guitar tone. remember that the first metal guys just turned everything on their marshal stack up to 10 and it was BEASTLY. None of this heavy scooped stuff.

on the editing side, don't compress the guitars. distortion IS compression. so compression will just nuke any dynamics. often times I've found boosting the very high treble ranges, like 10k-15k can help clarify a guitar's tone. dont over-do it tho cause this is also buzz range.

If the guitar seems muddy, sometimes cutting out a little 300-500 hz can help. usually for me its 350-400 but thats not a surefire method.




so play around with that and see where it takes you. if you really want a better tone, get bigger strings and play harder, and use less gain. its all about the strong attack!

Yeah, mostly what he said.

Your link doesn't do anything for me, so I can't hear it.

But I do know this.....The JVM210 is a great amp. The 57 is a tried and true fantastic cab mic. I don't know what kind of guitar or cab/speakers you're using, but with a JVM210 you should be getting usable results. The problem has to be in your own ears, hands, and/or mic placement. Put up a link that works....

 

[Ashlerrx]

Thanks! I'll look into getting heavier strings (I only use 9s) and doing some stuff you said. I'll post a link when I get closer! haha

 

[Ashlerrx]

Also, the link works. You'll just have to put a period between soundcloud and com. I couldn't post a direct link because I'm not over 10 posts.

 

[Greg_L]

Also, the link works. You'll just have to put a period between soundcloud and com. I couldn't post a direct link because I'm not over 10 posts.

Ahh, yeah got it now.

I don't think it's that bad, but I'm not a metal kind of guy. It does sound muddy though. I think your base tone is in the ballpark. It might just be a matter of moving the mic to find your sweet spot. And maybe play it better.