Can you REALLY tell the difference between Mic pre-amps?

[Robertt8]

I've got an M-Audio Audio Buddy and I was wondering if It's worth getting a better pre-amp. I'm pretty damn broke, and don't want to spend another $200 (about all I can afford) on a better pre-amp if there's little to no noticeable difference. Also, if there is much difference, does it start to get lost once you start layering and adding other instruments?

 

[BasPer]

I have no idea how good or bad the Audio Buddy is, but between the preamps I own there are immediately noticable differences. And when you layer tracks the difference rather becomes more pronounced (or so I'm told, I do almost everything live so I don't layer the same preamps so often).
The ones I have are (from bad to good) the built in preamps on the Hoontech ADAM24, the preamps in the soundcraft F1, and - last and best - the Mindprint AN/DIpro. The the difference between the Hoontech and the others are like night and day, while the difference between the soundcraft and the Mindprint is more subtle, but definitely there!
(I honestly think there is something fundamentally wrong with the Hoontech design. Just for the fun of it I'm gonna trace the schematic some day and try and see where they went wrong. I've already traced the Mindprint partly, and it's a fairly straight forward discrete class-A differential amp...)

 

[Chris Fallen]

You should go to your local music store (a GC or something) and try out something. Pick up a DMP3 or someting and try it out. You can take it back within a month. If you don't feel like supporting them (like a lot don't) then you can just use them to try it out and then buy it somewhere else. You can also use the threads on here to get the $200 item for $115 or so.

 

[chessparov]

Actually, it seems the more you layer things, the more apparent the differences in the pre's, according to more knowledgable folks than moi.
Are you shooting for releasing a commercial product though?

If not, the Audio Buddy sounds pretty good on electret based condensers, and condensers that aren't fussy about getting full 48v phantom power.
What microphones are you using?

Chris

 

[BasPer]

And if you are really tight on cash remember the words of Bob Ohlsson: "Putting the lion's share of your attention and investment out in front of the microphones pays off every time"

Your preamp is probably the least of your worries, but then again its often less demanding to spend $200 than to improve on your chops.

 

[meriphew]

Mic pres definitely make a difference. Compare the sound of drums going through a Mackie vs going through API's - very big difference.

________________
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Meriphew
www.meriphew.com

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yes and no. Preamps do make a big difference in sound, but the difference comes at a significant cost. Going from an $80 preamp to a $150 or $200 preamp probably won't make a huge difference. There may be some mics in that price range that would, depending on what mics you already have. The next big jump in pres comes at about $500- RNP, Grace Design 101, DBX386, etc.
At about $1500, you get into stuff like Avalon M5, Toft ATC-2, Great River, etc. Unfortunately, professional quality recording costs money. My advice would be to upgrade your mic cabinet, which *can* be started for $200, and wait until you can afford the next real jump in preamps.-Richie

 

[chessparov]

Richie, I thought at least some the Toft units were going to come in under a grand.

Chris

P.S. Thanks for the D112 suggestion, I know the AKG D12 was
a standard VO microphone years ago.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Chessparov, what you say is true. The ATC-2 seems targeted at a certain point, with a probable street price of around a grand, but the AFC-2 and EC-1 seem like they're targeted for a street price of $600-$750. All of them seem to have features usually associated with boxes costing somewhat more, but not really budget pres. That would seem to be consistent with Alan's general marketing strategy.
And yeah, there are times when I sing into D112, but for those purposes, I now use SM7B most of the time. Your voice, at least by your mic choices, seems to be quite different from mine, and the D112 might sound surprisingly good on you.-Richie

 

[chessparov]

There's actually a repressed longing for a SM7 eventually!

When singing with "correct" technique, my voice darkens naturally, so those microphones with a strong bottom (like D112),
give me a better idea of how I should sound naturally.
Being hypersensitive to my own sibilance, that's been one of the main factors as to getting into dynamic microphones so much.
So our voice types (mine's a lyric baritone) may be closer than it may seem.

Robert, there's an excellent article in "Recording Magazine",
IIRC the July issue, on microphones by Paul Stamler.
You may find it helpful.

Chris

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well Chess, I'm closer to Jonathon Edwards and Neil Young (without the falsetto) than I am to a lyric baritone. They tried to teach me Bel Canto, but it didn't stick.-Richie

 

[Deen]

I like what Richard Monroe said. I'm actually thinking
of 200 buck pre's max. But if an 80 buck sounds
close then I'm going for it and spending more on a mic.

 

[Giganova]

well, after I stepped up from a cheapo Aphex Tubessence 107 to a decent Focusrite Green channel strip, I was disappointed at first coz I was expecting a BIG difference. However, there was no big difference in sound. After a while it became clear to me that the "big difference" was actually the fact that my signal was lacking coloration and noise. Its basically what you don't hear that makes an improvement.

 

[Fletcher]

The differences between $200 pre-amps [for the most part] isn't all that great... the difference between $1,000/channel pre-amps is far more pronounced.

If I were you, I'd probably save the money and not invest in more crap... obviously, YMMV.

 

[pkmusic]

Fletcher,
Would Grace 101 fall into the "save the money and not invest in more crap"? Or does this model compare to Great River and others in that range?

 

[Fletcher]

Anything can be compared to anything else... and your mileage may vary in terms of the tone and textures you want to hear... overall, my opinion of what compares or doesn't compare really isn't going to be all that germane to any specific application... I know a lot of people who have Grace 101's like them quite a bit... I can't say it's really ever knocked my socks off... so, to anwer your original question... "I dunno... whadda you think?"

 

[David Artis]

There is actually a lot of great preamps out there.

One that I will never part with is my Vintech dual mic preamp. They are based on the original Neve 1272 designs.

Handbuilt and definitely great - but there not cheap.

 

[Michael Jones]

Yes and no. Preamps do make a big difference in sound, but the difference comes at a significant cost. Going from an $80 preamp to a $150 or $200 preamp probably won't make a huge difference. ...

... At about $1500, you get into stuff like Avalon M5, Toft ATC-2, Great River, etc. Unfortunately, professional quality recording costs money... -Richie

The differences between $200 pre-amps [for the most part] isn't all that great... the difference between $1,000/channel pre-amps is far more pronounced.

If I were you, I'd probably save the money and not invest in more crap...

Good advice there. You should take it.
If all I had were $200, and I wanted to make a SIGNIFICANT improvement in my recordings, I'd concentrate on treating the room.

 

[Giganova]

If all I had were $200, and I wanted to make a SIGNIFICANT improvement in my recordings, I'd concentrate on treating the room.

That's good advice! Even if you are on a budget, acoustic treatment doesn't have to cost a lot. I bought a bunch of these blue 2" Markertech giant acoustic tiles and put them up along all walls in my studio. It sounds absolutly dead now, so I can play around with lots of differemt VST reverbs after the tracks have been recorded.

 

[Dr_simon]

I honestly think there is something fundamentally wrong with the Hoontech design.

Humm they were the same people that made that doggy digital patch bay I was on about in another post only it was sold under a different name (SK Audio). I tried two of them and both were defective. From now on Im avoiding them like the plague !