can somebody recommend a PCI card with 8 analog ins?

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Hi_Flyer

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I think I'm giving up on the pair of Delta 44s that I have been using. The ASIO drivers suck (pops and clicks), and I can't get the pair of cards to sync if I use the WDM drivers, so....

The first one I looked at was the Delta 1010LT. It seems to be the cheapest option that I know of. Are there any other options? input/advice would be appreciated.
 
well, with a delta 1010lt, its the exact same driver (i believe all delta cards use the same driver) so you would have the same problem. I don't think you can sync 2 delta 44's together, but you can the 66 because it has spdif that can be used as the sync.

You might look into the Echo products, I think the Layla has 8 or so analog ins. If you're willing to venture out of the PCI card realm (which probably wouldn't be a bad idea to be more forward compatible) there are a mess of firewire options that would have what you're looking for.
 
what's the cheapest firewire option? I was just looking at the Yamaha i88X. Its close in price range to the 1010LT. I'm not necessarily looking for a device that has to have preamps, like a Firepod. ALthough that Yamaha has two preamps I believe... That would be nice.
 
cawhite12 said:
well, with a delta 1010lt, its the exact same driver (i believe all delta cards use the same driver) so you would have the same problem. I don't think you can sync 2 delta 44's together, but you can the 66 because it has spdif that can be used as the sync.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that I could use the WDM drivers with a 1010LT, and I wouldn't have sync problems.
 
As mentioned, you can't sync 2 Delta 44's together. In order to sync multiple Delta cards reliably, you need to chain the S/PDIF i/o's so they are all referencing the same wordclock. It is unlikely that your clicks and pops are due to a driver issue, more likely a worclock issue. M-Audio's drivers are usually pretty good. And yes, Delta cards all use the same drivers.

You would probably have better luck with a Delta 1010 or 1010LT. If you're wanting to go firewire, take a look at the Presonus Firepod. I've got a buddy who has one, and he loves it. It's nice because it has 8 mic pre's onboard.
 
You CAN SYNC multiple m-audio cards together: control panel -> MultiTrack Driver Devices -> Multiple Card Sync

and this works for the Delta44. In one DAW I have a Delta 44 & a Delta1010LT and they sync beautifully. However if the above setting is not made, then it will result in pops, clicks, etc.

The 2 Delta 44 cards WILL sync up just fine, just make sure to have the multiple card sync setting chosen.

And one last thing: DON'T use WDM, it really sucks - ASIO kicks it's ass
 
oops, quick correction.........

control panel -> Hardware Settings Tab -> MultiTrack Driver Devices -> Multiple Card Sync
 
disposeable said:
The 2 Delta 44 cards WILL sync up just fine, just make sure to have the multiple card sync setting chosen.
Click to expand...

I second this. I use a 44 and a 66 together just like this. Also be sure to get the latest driver from M-Audio!
 
disposeable said:
You CAN SYNC multiple m-audio cards together: control panel -> Hardware Settings Tab -> MultiTrack Driver Devices -> Multiple Card Sync

and this works for the Delta44. In one DAW I have a Delta 44 & a Delta1010LT and they sync beautifully. However if the above setting is not made, then it will result in pops, clicks, etc.

The 2 Delta 44 cards WILL sync up just fine, just make sure to have the multiple card sync setting chosen.
Click to expand...

Interesting, It's been a while since I've had a Delta Series card. I wonder if what you are describing was added in a somewhat recent driver update, or if it's always been there.

Good Info!
 
Interesting... I'll have to double check that setting. I know there is a setting in the Delta's control panel to sync the two cards, which I have ticked.

Weirdly enough, I only just noticed the pops and clicks recently when I tried working in 24-bit. I didn't notice the pops and clicks with the ASIO drivers in 16-bit. It could be my software too. I'm using N-track, which is a little bit buggy sometimes. But I know the cards are NOT IN SYNC because when I try to record with the WDM drivers, there is noticeable drift between tracks recorded on the different cards. I dunno if drift is causing the pops and clicks with ASIO or not, but its possible.

I have the latest drivers by the way.
 
disposeable said:
oops, quick correction.........

control panel -> Hardware Settings Tab -> MultiTrack Driver Devices -> Multiple Card Sync
Click to expand...

I just figured out what you are talking about here... This isn't working for me. Its not sync'ing the cards.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
Interesting...
Weirdly enough, I only just noticed the pops and clicks recently when I tried working in 24-bit. I didn't notice the pops and clicks with the ASIO drivers in 16-bit. It could be my software too. I'm using N-track, which is a little bit buggy sometimes. But I know the cards are NOT IN SYNC because when I try to record with the WDM drivers, there is noticeable drift between tracks recorded on the different cards. I dunno if drift is causing the pops and clicks with ASIO or not, but its possible.

I have the latest drivers by the way.
Click to expand...

If you just noticed the pops and clicks after jumping to 24 bit it's more likely to be a processor or memory issue. Sounds like your daw is struggling with the jump form 16 to 24 bit.

Also XP uses kernelsync so you don't need to lock the cards with the S/PDIF ins n outs...on the delta control pannel make sure both cards are set to INTERNAL for master clock and MULTIPLE CARD SYNC under driver devices. I have my 3 delta cards locked this way and everything works fine. Stick with the drivers

What's your latency set at? I can get mine down to 128 but it still farts and pops at 64 ....2milliseconds I can live with cause I monitor in real time with an analog mixer
 
I've tried different latency settings, up to 2048 with ASIO, and even higher with WDM. Is it possible to set the buffers too high in ASIO? Should I try a really low setting like 128? The thing is, I'm not trying to monitor and record, so I'm not worried about latency, I'm just trying to make a transfer from an 8 track analog deck to mix in the PC.

I think that I should have enough processing power for 8 track simultaneous recording. I mean, is 8 track simultaneous recording at 24/44.1 really putting THAT much of a strain on my system? I do get a perfect recording with the WDM drivers. I have an Intel P4 1.9GHz/768RAM/7200RPM hard disk. The DAW is on a dedicated partition with the usual audio tweaks for XP. I've checked for IRQ conflicts, PCI bus latency, all the usual suspects. Nothing is getting rid of the ASIO pops and clicks.

I only get the pops and clicks in ASIO. I don't get them with WDM, but the problem with recording with the WDM drivers is that after a few minutes I end up getting four tracks that are not quite in sync with four other tracks.
 
Here is a post on my problem from another board:

I still think your cards aren't properly synchronized.
At least that would explain all the problems you describe:

When using ASIO, both cards use the same driver (you can only use one ASIO driver at a time, right?). When you start recording, the lag between the two cards will start growing. Once the lag "outgrows" the buffersize, you get a pop/crackle/dropout.

When using WDM, both cards have their own driver, so you'd get the situation where the lag grows to values that you'll be able to notice very well.
But you won't necessarily get the crackles.

If I'm right, you won't have problems if you record 4 channels with one card (using ASIO and with the other card disabled).
If you record 5 channels using just one channel of the second card (still using ASIO) you would get crackles.
Click to expand...


Now I can't even get 16-bit recordings without crackles.
 
Hi_Flyer said:
what's the cheapest firewire option? I was just looking at the Yamaha i88X. Its close in price range to the 1010LT. I'm not necessarily looking for a device that has to have preamps, like a Firepod. ALthough that Yamaha has two preamps I believe... That would be nice.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Seriously think about FireWire. Performance approaching that of PCI, but:

1. External, so less likely to have noise issues.
2. External, so more portable, easier to move between machines.
3. Not based on a card technology that's being phased out.

#3 is a good reason not to pour lots of money into PCI peripherals at this point, IMHO. If you could get a 1010LT for $100, go for it. Otherwise, save money for something that will still work with new machines you buy five or six years from now.

Just my $0.02.
 
PCI is being phased out??? Where have I been?? I had no idea??? :confused:
 
I have some experience with the Delta 1010, the 1010-LT, the Yamaha i88X, and the Echo Layla 3-G and the Fireface cards. I also have limited experience with the EMU and Lynx cards.

When you take eveything in to account, I just think that, overall, Echo make a very high quality product, and I give it the edge over the other stuff I've used. Was disapointed with the i88x for the most part. Delta stuff is solid but unspectacular. Good product, but customer service has gone down the crapper, somewhat, since they were bought out by Avid.

Lynx and EMU are great in terms of pure sound quality, but the Lynx is a bit expensive, while the EMU's drivers and software are a little goofy to me. The Echo is right in the same ballpark as those two cards in terms of converter quality, but with far more stable drivers and useful software. And it's closer to M-audio in price, which is always a bonus. Echo customer support completely destroys all, with the possible exception of Lynx (I admittedly have no experience with them on that end).
.
 
turnitdown said:
PCI is being phased out??? Where have I been?? I had no idea??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah. The new standard, called PCI Express, is a serial standard, replacing parallel PCI. The advantages are threefold:

1. Better speed.
2. Longer distance between the controller chip and the device---instead of just a couple of inches, it could be on the other side of the board.
3. Fewer parallel data/address lines should result in better reliability (and easier board design).

There are even fairly trivial cards that allow you to adapt PCI Express to an external connector to allow the devices to live outside the computer's case in a really light-weight expansion chassis. Neat stuff.
 
Now I can't even get 16-bit recordings without crackles.
Click to expand...

I wonder if a 2nd hard drive wouldn't do you the most good. I can record a couple tracks at a time onto my main OS harddrive, but things get choked with more tracks. A partition only does so much good. You really need an entirely separate HD for performance gains. If this doesn't solve it, you either have buggy software (prolly not), buggy soundcard/drivers (prolly not), or a sketchy motherboard (possibly).
 
chessrock said:
When you take eveything in to account, I just think that, overall, Echo make a very high quality product, and I give it the edge over the other stuff I've used. Was disapointed with the i88x for the most part. Delta stuff is solid but unspectacular.
.
Click to expand...

Chess,

What don't you like about the i88x? The pre's are good aren't they? Are the A/D converters as good/better than a 1010?
 
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