can anyone explain how to get the highest possible potential volume?

  • Thread starter Thread starter grn
  • Start date Start date
grn

grn

Well-known member
I'd like to know what techniques you use on drums, guitars, guitar amps, bass guitars, and vocals as far as setting them up in the room. I'd also like to know how you set up the microphones and what levels you set them at when recording. I use an Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96 and it says when recording, the levels should "be in the yellow"... slightly above green and definitely not peaking/distorted. It's all relative, I know. Anyway, what do you do to get the highest potential volume? What do you do when mixing to get highest potential volume? Then what do you use to compress/limit the hell out of it?

I'd rather get a great recording without compress/limiting... and by great, I mean bad, because I mean loud.
 
You have to start getting the idea of volume out of your head as being an abolute. Perceived volume is always a relative thing. I mean anyone can make something loud. Like, you've seen a volume knob and you know what it does if you turn it clockwise, right? ? ? :D And you know that if you turn it too far and it sounds bad, you need to back off and turn it back to the left.

Alright, good ... glad we got that one out of the way.

Now on to loudness and perceived volume ... Keep in mind that you're getting in to some very broad concepts regarding economies of sound. I know that sounds like a stretch, so bear with me, but if you're economic and efficient about the sounds you're working with, then you'll have a louder-sounding finished product in the end. That's really the only way I know how to accurately describe it. And to get any further in to this is going to require far too much detail and explanation than anyone here will have time to post, so I would highly, highly suggest you start reading books -- like the Bob Katz book that everyone seems to like so much. What I'm trying to say is that this one might take a little more academics / book smarts. It's part art, part philosophy, but even more science than anything else.

As far as specific suggestions, the single biggest thing that comes to mind is arrangement. If you clutter your production and try to create a wall of sound with a million tracks, you may wind up with just the opposite effect and be left with a weaker-sounding production.

Another thing that comes to mind is really simple ... and that is to make sure you have plenty of midrange energy; guitars, vocals, piano, etc. Our ears are most sensitive to frequencies that occupy the range between 1K to 4k or so, so make sure your arrangements have plenty of that stuff "budgeted" if you want a loud-sounding mix.

Lastly, if you want something to sound loud ... then don't try to play or sing "louder." That's the last thing you want to do. For example: the bassist who picks really hard during "loud" parts of the song, or the guitarist who strums extra hard, or the vocalist who tightens his vocal chords and the drummer who smashes the daylights out of his loud cymbals.

Instead, try playing more deliberately and with controlled intensity. Think of it like this: What do you really hear when a bassist plays "louder?" I know what I hear ... a bunch of "PINK!" "TING" "POP!" crap. Pure muddled crap, basically. Actually sounds a lot weaker than when he was playing 'quieter.' Now apply the same principle to the 6-string. Does picking extra hard really make the chords sound more powerful? Or does it just make them sound choppier and less distinct? When the drummer hits the cymbals with great force ... does it really help matters, or does it just make the snare and toms sound much less powerful due to all the crazy cymbal bleed, etc ?

That's about all I can think of for the time-being. Good luck on your quest for loudness. I'm sure you're going to conquer the world with your sheer, unabashed raw volume in no time.
 
Is is just me, or is Jimmy Eat World "Bleed American" the loudest master I have ever heard. It peaks my equipment.?!
 
boomtap said:
Is is just me, or is Jimmy Eat World "Bleed American" the loudest master I have ever heard. It peaks my equipment.?!

Goo Goo Dolls: Big Machine.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Read my SIG.....

This is true.

grn, remember, crap that has been 'compressed to hell' is ultimately just louder, more obnoxious crap. Compression isnt done for the hell of it or to make the waveform look cooler, its done as a musical effect... helping to control dynamics in places where it may be a little 'unmusical'.

knowing how to use a compressor musically is the key, as long as you are sure that something needs compression. I wouldnt personally compress the entire mix, if thats what you're getting at, because it kills the natural dynamics of the music itself... plus it sounds like ass.
 
My virtual $.02

If EVERYTHING is loud, nothing is loud. If you want an element to sound loud, it has to have other elements that don't sound loud to provide a contrast.

That's if you REALLY REALLY REALLY need it to be loud, and nobody does.
 
well if I can keep the volume on a typical stereo system at level 6 for example and I don't have to adjust for any songs coming out from major record labels and then when I hear my own stuff and I have to adjust it to level 10... and then I get slight hiss from the stereo system, not from the song itself... it just is a little irritating.

anyway, I'm rambling, and the point is I would like to get a very high potential/relative volume without having to compress/limit that much at all.
 
grn said:
anyway, I'm rambling, and the point is I would like to get a very high potential/relative volume without having to compress/limit that much at all.
That isn't possible -- limiting is the only reason commercial CDs are as loud as they are, there's no other way to acheive it!
 
But there are (relatively) good and bad ways to go about it...

Of course, there's no way to tell which is which until it's being played...
 
I've always wondered that as well. So how can you use limiting to boost the perceived volume? And how can you avoid having a "wimpy loud sound"?
 
You see,

the answer to the question you are asking comes from a number of little things put together to make a big product. Getting good volume is a gradual process in recording.


It starts at the mics you use up until the final cut hits the CD for burning. The lower you can get your noisefloors, the higher dynamic range you can achieve. Good gear means more clairty for you.

Mastering plays a big part in this. It's not my area of expertise, so I can't surgical on details, but Master Engineers have the gear that will push your recording as far as it can go.


For example, TC Electronic sells the System 6000 which, in short, is like the golden thong for any studio. Increasing volume, clarity, tone...plus the especially important feature, it guards against serious ear fatigue.

In short, it means you can take just about any recording, blast the shit out of it and not cause your ears to break a sweat. Replay value goes up, your customers are happy and undeaf...just about everyone wins.

But just like anything, this is all within reason, of course. ;)
 
I was hoping that wasn't the answer. I guess there's no way to do it yourself in a home studio then (without spending thousands on that kind of equipment)?
 
noodles2k5 said:
I was hoping that wasn't the answer. I guess there's no way to do it yourself in a home studio then (without spending thousands on that kind of equipment)?

If you just want "loud," any limiter will do. A freebie that I use is the Classic Master Limiter by Kjaerhus. It is the best free limiter I've found. Sure, it doesn't sound as good as the expensive stuff, but it will make things louder. After you ruin a few mixes with it, you'll learn to back off some. :D
 
WAVES L2 for your final mix

grn said:
... and then I get slight hiss from the stereo system, not from the song itself... it just is a little irritating.


i'm not att all as experianced as others on the board, but i had the same problem with the hiss, and i solved it using WAVES L2 ULTRAMAXIMIZER plugin. it made my final mix louder and stronger with out clipping or distorting.

hope this helps :D
 
scrubs said:
...Sure, it doesn't sound as good as the expensive stuff, but it will make things louder. After you ruin a few mixes with it, you'll learn to back off some. :D

ROTFLMAO!!!!! :D
 
it's kinda a bummer, all this headroom and i feel like i dont get to use it at the end of the day
 
And to think I thought that all you had to do was turn the volume knob to 11... :D
 
giraffe said:
it's kinda a bummer, all this headroom and i feel like i dont get to use it at the end of the day
Amen, bruthah. The better the technology gets, the more people want to ruin it with an L2.
 
Back
Top