Can 67 year old learn fostex vf-160?

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Smile Can 67 year old learn fostex vf-160?
I bought a FOSTEX VF-160 almost 8 years ago. Family relative was to show me how to use this, but that never worked out. MINT CONDITION-barely ever used.
I did graduate from college so I am not completely stupid. HOWEVER, if I was a
FOSTEX company representative-I WOULD HANG MY HEAD IN SHAME!! No product is really ANY GOOD AT ALL, if those who buy it CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE IT!!! I also notice MANY, MANY, other people have trouble learning it also. IT'S ALL OVER THE NET AND FOSTEX KNOWS IT!! Yet, have they done anything about it?? I don't think so. Having a setup to answer questions is quite poor compared to having directions that REASONABLY INTELLIGENT people can understand.

Here's the scoop. I write what would be considered -easy listening- music- but with lyrics-mostly Christian songs, but with like orchestral background on synthesizer. So, actually all I want to record is BACKGROUND TRACKS on CD.
Like I have at least 50 or more-and have had them ready for the last 10 years.
So like I am just wanting to record from the synthesizer directly to CD. Should I get rid of this FOSTEX and get something real simple?? or not. AHH..believe-it-or-not- I researched this Fostex vf-160 to the moon, so to speak, before buying it and believe it is probably the best thing out there for the money, IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE IT!!

If I had known how RIDICULOUS THE MANUAL IS- I WOULD NEVER HAVE BOUGHT IT.

Like I said, if I worked for a company like FOSTEX, I would be ASHAMED to look myself in the mirror every morning when I shaved. I am quite serious. I have looked at some Tascam
stuff online- and one person said the manual was 1/2 as thick as a Fostex manual. Anyway, I am looking for some advice. I didn't want to go the computer recording way- but I realize now- it couldn't have been any HARDER than FOSTEX. I have run across the SUPERSCOPE CD recorder. Is that the way to go? Look, life is to short to put up with all the aggravation I have had to put up with- in trying to read and get this Fostex to record. Frankly, I have almost reached the point where I have almost given up on FOSTEX. I am open to any advice others may have. I want to spend my time, playing with grandkids, and writing songs, - NOT GOING CRAZY TRYING TO RECORD THEM ON CD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sincere thanks for any help others can give me. synthman67
Last edited by SYNTHMAN67; 14 Minutes Ago at 20:29.. Reason: spelling
 
Moan no more. The manuals are total rubbish. I complained to Fostex Japan and sent them my suggestions for improvement - Ignored to date!

BUT the Fostex recorders are very logical to operate and work well normally. You just have to "Have A Go", you will wonder what all the fuss was about after a few sessions.
You need to approach the machine in a logical fashion and break the operations down into small steps. Reason:- the controls mask a versatile and flexible machine with a lot of power but you won't use everything at once. ( Example - put editing and part editing aside for a later date.)

I have a MR-16 HD/CD and I learnt the hard way but, again, when I tried a few button presses and re-read the manual, all became obvious.
Look on the machine as a 16 track tape recorder. Carry out a few recordings and then play with the results.

Incidentally my age is only a year or two apart from you and, if I can do it then it must be easy. Do you have the CD-1A burner fitted to your VF-160?

You will find me and the real VF-160 experts on the User Forum under www.fostexusa.com then Support and User Forum.

Good Luck!!

PS: I use my MR-16 HD/CD to burn CDs without a PC being involved. I play a Yamaha EL900 organ so my recording needs are very similar to yours.
 
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Very encouraging and helpful

LOOK, I don't get up at 4:30 (approx.) A.M. for nothing. This was a real reward, so to speak, for checking out this site. SO GLAD, you wrote. Will keep in touch. The age think ENCOURAGING!!

Thanks again. Will talk again, when not so sleepy.
synthman67

no it is not a wink- IT IS HALF ASLEEP!
 
Glad you enjoyed my rant. I am not a VF-160 expert!!! but others on the user forum are and I am sure they will help if they can.

The VF-160 is a "pro" machine and, as I felt when I got the MR16, expects a level of knowledge in digital recording before we open the User Manual. I have been through the DAT and Mini Disk route before I went digital but nothing from my past prepared me for the digital change over. Its very different.

I did wonder if you had considered "downgrading" to a simpler machine, for example the MR16? There is a lot less to worry about!!!
Recording the EL900 requires only two Input channels and no Equalisation or other special effects which may be needed with accoustic instruments. I make the sound I want on the EL900 and so a direct recording is all that is required. This makes a third of my machine redundant. (BUT the CD burner becomes important.) If you are recording direct from your Synth., you will have created the sound you want and just require a recording.

My Fostex (like models form other manufacturers - I understand) requires you to finish with two (stereo) tracks which can then be converted to a stereo WAV file. This WAV file then is burnt to the CD as one of the CDs tracks. Before this happens, I can record up to 16 tracks using all the power of my machine, I can sing along with a pre-recorded organ accompaniment, mix in drums etc, etc. and "bounce" all the recordings to the (above) stereo pair.
This is where the "complexity" comes in. BUT as each operation is a step in the process of producing a CD track, each step, in itself, is a simple set of actions and you can "master" each in turn.
Another advantage is that you can keep the "raw" recording intact through all the above steps, so, if a mistake is made, you can restart the process without having to record again.

End of ramble! Hope this helps to clear the mind! You do have a very complex machine with a lot of power - most of which, I guess, you will never use. (MIDI clock - whats that?)
Cheers for now. Please let me know how you get on.
 
Fostex VF160

Hello Sythman,

I am certain I can help you in no time flat. I went through the same thing. Now I love my machine and wouldn't want anything else. My email is:
stilrunin22@hotmail.com. We can do by email if you prefer, or by telephone
which is the easiest way.

Get with me and you problems are over.

Ken Barthell
 
Your VF160

Hey Synthman,


Stilrunin22 here again. I have more time now to talk. I am 66 yrs old and the manual has meant next to nothing to me. Couldn't get any help locally or from Fostex. Stared at the machine for a couple of months. Here's what I conclued:

I'm not going to undersatnd the manual or the terminology.
I'm not going to ever be able to understand all that machine if capable of doing. I don't care because I figured out how to Direct Record. That's all you need.

I treat the machine just like a tape recorder. I don't use "scenes" and all that mess. I don't understand it. I use the number counter just as if it were a tape recorder.

Here's the deal:

1. Press the Direct Record button. It will light up red.

2. Then choose the tracks want to record on-up to 8. Press those Buttons. They will light up red.

3. Then press the record button. It will light up red. Now you have the machine ready to record. You will simply press "play & record" at the same time to begin recording. Make sure you have written(logged) your numbers down to start and when you finish. (But wait, theres more)

So now the machine is ready for you to input or play into it some music.
You do this by plugging in your sound source into the track jacks you have selected. You press the play & record buttons at the same time and start playing your input source (CD player, synth, guitar, bass, etc. Play your music into the recorder and look at the screen. You should see your signal jumping as you play. Turn the gain knob until it is showing about 3/4 of the way to the top. If you don't see this happening, press the "input sel" button until you do.
When you finish your input, press stop. You have sucessfully recorded.

Remember this, with direct record mode, you record the sound you in. This means if for instance you have to much reverb on the signal, you can't remove.
So be cautious of that, remember you can add effect to the recorded signals
with the effects features which I will explain to you how to use.

I wish I could do all the features on the machine but I can't. I'v made some very good recording as I described.

Get with me and I'll explain the other features use. This is where the fun begins, the mixing. It's a blast.

Ken
 
persevere?

I know the frustration. I have used this machine since 2004 and produced two albums from it, so it's more than earned its keep.

i was totally baffled by it to start with and found it very frustrating, the manual was difficult to follow. A lot of that though came from the fact that i was not only new to the vf but also new to all the home recording terminology in general! ie knowing the difference between a track and a channel for instance. That's not a fault of the VF but simply a lack of understanding on the part of the user.

let's face it, many older people find ANY form of new device a little difficult to learn to use, compared with youngsters.

Interestingly a friend of mine recently bought a VF and is coming to look over my shoulder while I do a session, so he can watch what I'm doing. I wish I'd had a friend able to do the same for me back in 2004! he reckons the manual works, but ONLY if you play with the machine at the same time... just 'have a go'. Don't try to do it all at once, start with simple tasks, then add to that once you mastered it.

In any case, does anyone think the alternative to the VF of learning to record on a PC with an unfamiliar piece of software would be a lot easier for a 66 year old? I doubt it!

Mine's still going strong, same hard disc, same v1.0 firmware!
 
Vf-160

Hi glymb,

I have tried the PC recording. Not for me at this time. I have a Pro Tools set up and do fool arouind with it some, but the learning curve is sooooo
big. I have managed to record some things but I haven't much of a clue how to work with the records after their tracked. Sometimes we have just to many choices. But by no means do I know how to do Pro Tools. The one thing I wish I had on my Fostex is pitch correction.

Really I like to work with my Fostex VF160 much better. To me, the sound is better and the effects are as well. Of course I know how to control it so well.

Can anybody tell me about how to record all 16 tracks at once?

Ken
 
stilrunin22 said:
Can anybody tell me about how to record all 16 tracks at once?

Ken
Click to expand...

You can only record 8 tracks at once with the VF as it is 'out of the box'.

i understand there's an additional component you can buy to make 16 track at once possible, sorry i don't know what that is as it's not something I've needed, maybe someone else can assist.
 
Frustration

I found the manual frustrating because there's no index. You can save yourself some trouble by making your own as you find pages that you might want to refer back to without having to search the whole manual. For example, I rarely use the erase function. So, when I do, I'm not sure which buttons select the start and end points. [It's Auto Punch IN and Auto Punch OUT.] Rather than having to flip through the whole manual, I refer to my short list to find the page number.


Also, the firmware has several serious bugs. I reported some on one of the older Fostex forums, but got no response. [Firmware V2.08.]

When pushing buttons, the VF-160 is often slow to respond; in general, it ignores the buttons until it's ready. (That's fine; it doesn't queue interrupts.) But, I've managed several times to get it to hang, apparently by pushing buttons while it was still finishing a previous action. The only way to get it to respond at all after that is to turn it off and on again and then reset the things that it forgets when it's turned off (selected tracks, etc.)

The length of continuous recording (in one program) is much less than the 24 hours claimed, and seems to be determined by the arrangement of blocks on the disk. [When I reformat the disk, the maximum continuous recording length changes. I've experienced limits as long as 14 hours and as short as 1 hour.] [The problem manifests as the recorder just switching from RECORD mode to STOP mode and some arbitrary time.]


If you try to create a CD from Clipboard In and Out points that are too far from 0:00:00, it will create a blank CD. [You can do an EDIT-MOVE to move the tracks closer to 0:00:00, and then burn THAT into a CD.]
[Apparently, the internal data representation for the clipboard points isn't wide enough to represent the full range of times that are possible.]
And, if your Clipboard In and Out points straddle the number at which the internal overflow/wrap occurs, you will get an error about invalid start and end points when you try to burn a CD. [This is better than its burning a blank CD.]


It's pretty-much impossible to get replacement parts. I once tried to get replacements for the burned-out bulbs in the LCD display and some spares, such as sliders and the CD drive. I did it when they were moving from California to New Jersey. They accepted parts requests only by email, and the email address they provided on their web site was wrong. The only way I found to contact them was by looking up corporate information and getting a general contact number. I sent email to try to get prices for the parts I was interested in (and a parts list / service manual). After months of no response to repeated requests, I got a response with a phone number of the sales department. After many days of telephone tag - how can a sales department that doesn't have someone to answer the phone actually sell things? - I got through to a sales person. He gave me a pointer to the service manual / parts list on-line. I identified the parts and asked for prices so I could decide on quantities. After several months, I got a message that my parts order had arrived, even though I had never placed an order. I was so disgusted by the utter incompetence of their sales people that I didn't bother to respond. [How much more telephone tag should I play to explain that I still didn't have the information that I had requested close to a year before so that I could order the parts?]


When I bought this, I assumed that a dedicated appliance would be more robust and, therefore, less frustrating, than something that runs on a PC. I was wrong.
 
Wow! That's a sorry tale. I'm quite surprised by that (not by the incompetent sales Dept.) but that you think it to be unreliable.

I can say I've only got a lock up requiring a re-boot about three times in the 5 years I've been using this machine. it's been so reliable.

I wonder if firmware improvements they made introduced so many bugs and that's why you've suffered? I am still on v1.0 of the firmware (yup, 1.0!), and it's fine.

Issues I've had have only been when the disc is nearly full, I've had corruption occur, where it seems to lose tracks of some of the blocks of data and you get a few seconds of one tune appearing in another. that has happened twice now and the cure was to re-format and restore. Which was not too bad as I always take backups and it helps to clean out old recordings.

I've never experienced delays when pressing the buttons, it always responds in good time.

Most VF16 owners seem happy, i guess you've been unlucky. I know my PC is nowhere near as reliable lost count how many reboots and s/ware crashes i experience with it in general!
 
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