Cakewalk Vocal Tips?

J

JPlush76

New member
I have sonar 1.0

I'd like to put alot of focus on getting a good vocal sound

I bought a nady 1050 vaccum tube condenser mic and preamp

what I'm wondering is what kind of general rule of thumb is there for the effects or eq you typically add to vocals to warm and brighten?

thanks all!
 
yea yea yea

I'm not talking about performance, I'm just talking about what do with it when its recorded

it records fine but needs some verb and compression
 
now why didn't I think of that?

I'm asking about general rules of thumb...

use some compression while recording? do it all after? how much compression for vocals? what types of reverb generall work well?

I'm a novice like I said, so I'm just looking for some starting guidelines.
 
Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Mixing, like cooking, is an art. It's like adding seasoning to taste. There really is no set of rules, or any one way of doing it. It all depends on the song and the way you think it should sound. Just play around with the effects until you think it sounds good. It takes a while to learn how to use effects properly. Especially compression. The best way is to just try different things untill it sounds good.
 
yea compression is the thing that seems to be a big factor

I've been doing some reading on it today

last night I was just haphazardly playing around with settings but I really had no clue what or why I was changing things.
 
JPlush76 said:

....last night I was just haphazardly playing around with settings but I really had no clue what or why I was changing things.
Click to expand...

Yah! Here here!

Join the club, dude.

Seems like I bought a grain harvester combine to mow the back yard.



Neo
 
I've been getting really good results using the FRM Audio RNC1773 compressor ($175.00). I go out of my mixer, into the compressor, then into the computer. I set it at:

Threshold: +5
Ratio: 6:1
Attack: 6:0
Release: 0:5
Gain:0 (unity)

It sounds absolutely great and is getting great reviews in the trade magazines and on other recording forums I've been reading. I get tips from a friend of mine who teaches recording at a nationally recognized college and he recommends this compressor to all his students. I'm not too sold on the compressor plug-ins, including what comes with Sonar. Waves makes a decent one, but it costs a lot. Most that I've worked with seem to take a lot of massaging to get them to sound acceptable, and even at that, I haven't been that pleased with the results. The reverbs in Sonar sound decent to my ear, if you adjust them well. Those adjustments vary, depending on the timber of the voice you are recording, and the style of song. It's hard to give specific suggestions on reverb.

MaKettle
 
Woops! "depending on the timber of the voice"

Make that "timbre". Didn't mean to be cuttin' trees there. Although we do a lot of that out here in the forest.

MaKettle
 
OK, here's some specific suggestions:

Use a "spreader". Some people do it with digital delay, but I find that sounds to mechanical and tends to thin out the vox due to phasing issues. Here's what I do:
Record your Main Vocal track. Pan it center. Record a second vocal track that is as close to the first track as possilble. Concentrate particularely on making sure all the "T's" and "S's" are together. If you can't get them to end at the same time, don't sing them on the second track. Yeah, that's right - sing "All we are is dus.. in the win.." Why? Becuase you don't want a bunch of stuttering plosives cluttering everything up.
Anyway, once you have the second track recorded, copy it to a third track. Now pan them hard L and R. NOW... slide that third track forward by a few ticks. And lastly, turn these "spreader" tracks down so that they are barely perceptable.
What you end up with is a great vocal track right in the center, and a barely audible stereo chorus spread. This really helps to give the vocals that up-front, wide pop sound.

I agree with those who say no compression at recording. Add that later. A great compression plug-in: Ultrafunk Sonitis. Beautiful compression, very cheap.

Reverb: Experimentation is the key. There are no rules. But here is what I find works for me most often: less is better. Shorter is better. If a casual listener can notice the reverb, it's too much. It should be subtle. So subtle that you don't notice it.
Use a high diffusion value. Set the high-pass filter at around 500hz, so that most of the low end reverb is squelched.

EQ: Anything under 80k I usualy roll off. Somewhere around 250 k is a good spot to boost for consonant definition. Usually somewhere in the upper mids is a good place to cut, and somewhere above that is a good place to boost again for air. Play around with your parametric a little and find those sweet spots. For backing vocals I usually make even more severe cuts in the mids to add the "airiness".

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
my only complaint Aaron is that i prefer to record both of the ghost tracks rather than using a copy and pushing it.

i also agree that the ultrafunk compressor is pretty darn good. i've got the whole suite and Sonitus has done a bang-up job for the money. i used their compressor and EQ plugins all the time until i got the Waves bundle.
 
The R3 version of the Ultrafunk plug-ins is da bomb! The multiband compressor is out of this world and much better than R2. The 5 band parameteric EQ is also very good.

Aaron, thanks fro the vocal techniques above.
 
crosstudio said:
my only complaint Aaron is that i prefer to record both of the ghost tracks rather than using a copy and pushing it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've tried it that way too. Sometimes it works for me and sounds great, and sometimes it ends up sounding like several voices when all I really want is that cool stereo sheen that just sounds like one big voice. I wish I could figure out why it works sometimes and not others. Just all part of that studio mojo, I guess.

One other cool reverb tip I forgot: If your going for a long reverb on your vocals but it just seems to muddy them up and bury them, lengthen the pre-delay. That well give the vocal time to cut through and be up front before the reverb kicks in. A perfect example is Repunzel by Dave Mathews Band. Halfway through the song he does these ad-lip vocal groans/moans that have a mountain of reverb on them, but the vocals sit right on top.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
Try this...

I found this free software tool called Studio Buddy that answers such questions.

I have about 100 free links to other music tips. Just send a blank email to gocyrus2@sendfree.com and you will get an auto-response in a minute.

Cy

More links:

http://www.songstuff.com/Features.htm

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/41AE5FECC7D8418D86256675000A3CFD

http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/articles/84FEEE3EDDAEF5DF8625665000588CE0

Songwriting tips:
http://www.songmd.com/html/column.html

COMPRESSOR SETTING TIPS

Although there are no hard and fast rules on what compressor settings to use when, here's a list of common settings. Use these as guidelines, but of course experiment.

GENERAL SETTINGS
Attack: Fast
Release: 0.8s/Auto
Ratio: 5:1
Knee: Soft
Gain red: 8dB

GENERAL MIXING
Attack: Fast
Release: 0.6s/Auto
Ratio: 2 - 5:1
Knee: Soft
Gain red: 2-9dB (Stereo Link On)

VOCALS
Attack: Fast
Release: 0.5s/Auto
Ratio: 2:1 - 6:1
Knee: Soft
Gain red: 3-9dB

ACOUSTIC GUITARS
Attack: 5 - 15ms
Release: 0.4s/Auto
Ratio: 5 - 9:1
Knee: Soft/Hard
Gain red: 5-11dB

ELECTRIC GUITARS
Attack: 2-7ms
Release: 0.5s/Auto
Ratio: 9:1
Knee: Hard
Gain red: 5-11dB

KICK/SNARE
Attack: 1-5ms
Release: 0.2s/Auto
Ratio: 5 - 10:1
Knee: Hard
Gain red: 5-15 dB

BASS SOUNDS
Attack: 2-8ms
Release: 0.4s/Auto
Ratio: 4 - 12:1
Knee: Hard
Gain red: 5-13dB

BRASS INSTRUMENTS
Attack: 1-5ms
Release: 0.3s/Auto
Ratio: 6 - 15:1
Knee: Hard
Gain red: 8-13dB

Also, use a short delay with your vocals to get a slight chorus effect. Other useful software tools for vocals.

AutoTune 3
Mic Modeler
RBC Voice Tweaker
Clone Ensemble
Voice Machine
 
Last edited:
Cool Thread!

Great information here.

I've been copying vocal tracks and spreading them around, but only occasionally tracking a second set. What are the advantages to doubling tracks of vox as opposed to simply copying existing ones and spreading them out?
 
The advantages are: They're different. Despite the fact that you always do everything you can to make them sound identical, there will always be subtle differences in tone, attack, ambeture (sp?), etc., and that is what makes it work.
If you just copy and paste and exactly identical clip, it won't result in the cool chorusing that different takes will, and furthermore it introduces phasing issues. That is why Crossstudio aptly suggested recording all the voices rather than sliding the second take.
Same holds true for double-tracking guitars. THe oldest trick in the book is the old "double-the-guitars-and-pan-them-hard-L-and-R". YOu would never want to do that by merely copying the clip. To make it work you have to actually record a second take, preferably with something changed, i.e. different amp, different guitar, different mic placement, different EQ, etc. THat way the two tracks compliment each other and widen the stereo spread rather than phasing each other out.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
I like to use delay rather than reverb on vocals. About a 16th note delay for the initial repeat, then adjust the time and strength of subsequent repeats to taste. I think delay uses less CPU than reverb. I never compress going in and I envelope the hell out of the track before I think about compressing after. Again, less CPU and I admit to being compressor illiterate, more or less. I also agree that judicious use of predelay on reverb will help remove the mud.
I've posted this before, and I'm no expert (although I play one on TV), but this has worked well for me and was recommended by a studio-owner friend. I'm also sure that this is a matter of taste and depends on the singer, song, etc.

Aaron Cheney said:
...Same holds true for double-tracking guitars. THe oldest trick in the book is the old "double-the-guitars-and-pan-them-hard-L-and-R". YOu would never want to do that by merely copying the clip. To make it work you have to actually record a second take, preferably with something changed, i.e. different amp, different guitar, different mic placement, different EQ, etc. THat way the two tracks compliment each other and widen the stereo spread rather than phasing each other out.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
Click to expand...

This is one of my favorite tricks, also. What I want to do though (and I'm not sure how) is to pan guitar one hard right, but assign delay or reverb hard left. So that you hear the initial attack in the right ear and the subsequent resonation on the left. Guitar two is opposite. Any tips on this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top