C1 vs 4033 Dilemma

[TopShelf]

I seek help once again on helping my brain and wallet spend for my key vocal mic - I seek experienced users and applications for some help.
I intend to use it with a good preamp into a Korg D1600.
Thanks in advance to anyone providing input on this critical vocal mic purchase.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Top Shelf,

That is a hard question. The mics sound different for different people. I have a 4033 and a C3 for my main vocal mics and I can tell you that they both have distinct characteristics. I happen to like the C3 better because it requires less to make it fit in a mix than the 4033 does.

However, the 4033 seems smoother on some voices to my ears.

I would say that if you like a slightly harder mid range EQ sound on your vocals, that the C1 or C3 would be a good choice.

If you like a warmer but slightly more difficult to set in the mix sound, the 4033 is a good choice.

Velvet Elvis

 

[Gidge]

the 4033 isnt a better mic than the C1, and if it is for only one vocalist, the only way to go is to try both....if it will be for more than one vocalist, i would go with the C1......i have heard many people say they didnt like the 4033 but liked the C1, yet not many vice versa......

 

[tdukex]

Of course, you could also through the V67 into the mix.

 

[Gidge]

well, the v67 is as good a mic as the 2 above mentioned...and you can get it for $99....

 

[Blackburn]

I have never used a C1 but I own 2 4033's and have been very please with their performance. They are extremely versatile and can be used on about anything. I typically use them as drum overheads and on vocals. No complaints here.

 

[darrin_h2000]

I have a C1 and it is smooth as it gets for its price. the V67 Ive tried and found it to have a charictaristic in the highs that makes it suitable for rocking but it lacks the smoothness for balads and such. I would get the C1 if I were you. the AT4033 is smooth but it isnt as hot as the C1 and the V67. You will need more gain from the pre.

 

[jimistone]

i have a d1600, a C-1 and a joe meek vc6q channel. The joe meek makes a hell of a difference in what you can get out of the d1600. I have been cutting classic style originals blues tunes and the joe meek/C-1 delivers. I know the term "warm" is overused, but, the joe meek warms up the d1600's sound quite nicely. bass sounds real good when going thru the meek into the d1600...guitar is KILLER micing the amp cab with the c-1 going into the meek. i can't wait till i get something finished to put in the mp3 mixing clinic (im tied up finishing out the inside of my studio and the equipment is in storeage right now).

the C-1 is a real good mic....and a joe meek pre (any of them) has a optical compresser that really gives the tracks a good sound...the one i have has a very nice 4 band eq too.

what i have noticed on the d1600 is that when you use phantom power and hook up a large diaphram condenser mic like the C-1 you don't have enough head room, have to crank the trim 3/4 of the way or more to get a desent signal. with the joe meek pre you have TONS of head room...you'll clip the shit out of the d1600 if your not careful. another thing i have noticed is how nice digital signals respond to the optical compresser on the meek. the pre-set guitar effects sound SO much better. I mean, you can do a rythem guitar track direct and it sounds damn good...this wasn't the case in my opinion without going thru the pre. the first time i recorded electronic drums with the meek it blew me and the drummer both away...the damn cybles sounded real (the area that electrnic drums suck in my opinion)

guess i need to quit rambling on.....so....i don't think you will be sorry one bit if you get the c-1 and a joe meek. but i will also say that im not a mic guru.

 

[heylow]

I have never used a C1 but I own 2 4033's and have been very please with their performance. They are extremely versatile and can be used on about anything. I typically use them as drum overheads and on vocals. No complaints here.

Took the post right out of my mouth!

That said...I AM eyeing a C3....dammit, it never ends, this cycle of gear whorism!!

 

[Vurt]

Gidge, you're either higher than hell or deaf if your ears think the v67 is as good as the 4033.

I'm pretty much with Blackburn on this one... I don't have a C1, but instead use a D1600 with a 4033 and now a new GT am52. The versatility of the 4033 is invaluable and it's performance on vocals is very, very good. I've gotten great results with it on a number of people with different styles, so to anyone bashing it for vocals I say try gain because you're doing something wrong.

I'm definitely NOT saying to forget the C1. I've heard it and want one myself, but if you think you may want to use your new mic for other tasks as well, then I would go with the 4033. You can do anything with it.

Jimistone, one of us doesn't undestand what headroom is. The reason you have to crank the trim 3/4 the way up (or more!) is because the preamps on the D1600 SUCK!

 

[Gidge]

Vurt,

unfortunately, i am neither....my post boils down to the fact that a voice can be better suited with different mics, and one cant be necessarily "better" than the other.......i never said the C1 was better than the 4033...i simply said the 4033 wasnt better than the C1...they both have their strengths......

 

[Vurt]

I wasn't talking about your suggestion on which mic to get, the C1 or 4033... I was referring to your comment that the v67 is as good as both of those. I think the v67 is a great mic for $100, but not nearly as smooth or versatile as the 4033.

 

[chessrock]

I have a v67 and I'm not overly thrilled with it. It is what it is - an outstanding $100 vocal mic.

There seems to be this trend I've been noticing, though, where an awful lot of the stuff I hear and really like lately has been done with the Audio Technicas. They are good on everything.

But since Topshelf's question was originally seeking advice on strictly a vocal mic, I can see where Gidge is coming from. He is right. Were I looking for just a vocal mic, the v67 is a bit of a no-brainer at $100.

 

[jimistone]

"Jimistone, one of us doesn't undestand what headroom is. The reason you have to crank the trim 3/4 the way up (or more!) is because the preamps on the D1600 SUCK! "

which one of us are you talking about?

When you have to turn the trim on a channel almost all the way up to get a good signal...i call that "not much headroom". When you have a real strong signal and the trim is less than half way up... I call that "alot of headroom".

what is your definition of headroom?

 

[Vurt]

When you have to turn the trim on a channel almost all the way up to get a good signal...

I would call that a weak signal/shitty preamp, that's all. If anything, it would result from more headroom than less methinks, if it can be compared to headroom at all.


When you have a real strong signal and the trim is less than half way up... I call that "alot of headroom

I'm starting to feel like we're comparing apples to oranges, but to remain in your context, I would say the opposite. Headroom, the way I understand it, has nothing to do with the strength of your signal but rather how much of a signal - weak or strong - can be accurately captured and reproduced without deficiencies. The more headroom, the hotter your signal can be. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[TopShelf]

Thread Morphing

Guys:
Thanks much for weighing in - including the D1600 comments and the beginnings of an exchange on headroom. This thread morphing is actually great help for me, a D1600 user -
I take the point that its the mic/pre/eq/board, not *just* the mic!

So maybe my thoughts on getting a DMP3 should also consider a Meek pre as well...any comments out there on that comparison?

Maybe this should be in the rack stuff threads
Tnx
Bill

 

[chessparov]

topshelf, I have a C1, a Joe Meek VC6Q and VC3Q-they're great.
If you want better EQ and/or are recording "rock", go for the
Meek IMHO. Keep in mind you'd be getting an excellent photo-optical compressor in the bargain that flatters vocals.
The Joe Meek MQ3 is an enhancement over the VC3Q BTW.
These babies have headroom galore to take on incoming signals!

I tested a C1 vs. the 4033, and the C1 was definitely more flexible in accomodating different vocal types/styles when I sang
various songs in bass, baritone, and 2nd tenor keys YMMV.

Chris

 

[TopShelf]

Chesparov
Can you comment on the Joe Meek MQ3 - as it is more in my price range than the models you mention....does it also have the pre amp piece I need - cause I see it does have the compressor and some EQ - maybe a VC1Q lite version??

 

[jimistone]

"I'm starting to feel like we're comparing apples to oranges, but to remain in your context, I would say the opposite. Headroom, the way I understand it, has nothing to do with the strength of your signal but rather how much of a signal - weak or strong - can be accurately captured and reproduced without deficiencies. The more headroom, the hotter your signal can be. Someone correct me if I'm wrong..."

well, if you have a suck pre-amp (like you say the d1600 has) that you have to crank almost all the way up to get a signal, your going to have deficiencies, like distortion that comes from cranking a pot more that 3/4 of the way up. (like a strat thats clean with the volume knob at halfway...then it gets dirty when you turn the volume knob all the way up)

then you take a good pre that gives you the same signal when its turned less than 1/2 way up...your gonna get less distortion.

whether your talking about a P.A. system for a live gig, a guitar amp, or a mic preamp...dosen't really matter.
the amount of reserve gain is your "headroom".

the meek has alot of reserve gain. the d1600 doesn't

 

[Gidge]

a C1 (or a v67 for that matter) through a Joe Meek preamp is a pretty beautiful experience for the price.....i have the v67 and the VC3Q.......

and yes it is a preamp, compressor, eq......