Buying a new mic this weekend

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cwadroon
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I'm just waiting for someone to say this was all just a joke. :)

Please read my other thread entitled: "Oh my god, what have I done?" for my take on things.

Some of these replies are kind of humorous. I think I've been recommending the Behringer B2, and anticipating the release of the Behringer B1, if I'm not mistaken. :)

You guys are all pretty silly, sometimes, ya know?. Really silly. :) :) But I love you.

I'm going to my girlfriends' now for some grub&love. Much love to spread around to you silly cats on this Valentine's Day. Have a happy one.
 
HOLY CRAP CHESSROCK!!!

I had you completely confused with someone else. I'm very sorry.

Oh, and Gidge, I wasn't trying to insult. It was just a funny image to me... Gidge: staunch defender of the v67 and wielder of the Pacifica. I don't know... I probably should start smoking weed again.

Damn I'm a dumbass sometimes. I'm glad everything is straightened out in spite of my clueless instigating. I'll go back to lurking now. :)
 
Gidge, I didn't quite mean it quite like that. I'm talking about how extreme this forum can get with mic recommendations. It gets way out of hand sometimes, with everybody jumping in to recommend one of three mics. The problem can be, as I see it, that a lot of people will base buying decisions on the number of people who recommend a product. So if 10 guys like me just bought a V67 as their first LDC, and we all hop in to a thread to recommend it because we happen to own it, then our amature opinions are greatly inflated in what could be an unhealthy way. Know what I mean? If this forum was reasonably dead, that would be a different story. See it's not just an issue with people recommending things they don't have, problems can arise when people have only heard one piece of some type of gear and then recommend it....in great numbers.

Mics & preamps are the most difficult aspect of recording to most of us amatures. I knew a hell of a lot about guitar before I started recording, but I sure as hell didn't know jack about microphones or preamps, and I still don't. This is one forum where I might give my opinion, but I feel it's best a lot of time just to evesdrop on Harvey and RE, for instance.

It's not like I'm against discussion. Discussion is totally necessary. I've said several times that I don't like the sound I get from the 603s when I use it on my acoustic guitar. But I would never say "the 603 sucks on acoustic, don't get it." I'm not saying that you would do something like that either....I'm just making a point.

Gidge, I didn't take your post as a flame, and I totally respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from. Sorry I overly generalized without really explaining my viewpoint.

Sorry to pop this stupid thread back up to the top again.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

Just another point of view: I think we all *benefit* from using some of the same equipment, including microphones. I bought a V67 and the ECM8000s so I would have some experiential understanding of what people are talking about when they write about their recording experiences ("I tried that over-the-shoulder-pointed-down at the guitar placement, and it worked" type of thing). Ditto my little Mackie 1202VLZ Pro. Without some tools in common, how would we know we when we were talking about the same things? How would we ever help one another?

I see this board as a loose sort of distance-learning seminar for those of us who can't afford (time and/or money) to go back to school. It's GREAT that we encourage people to buy the same three mics so they can participate in something other than words and theory.

I understand your point of view (and you know I'm very fond of you), but I think you're off base with your most recent line of reasoning. It's all good. Let it be.

Yours,

Mark H.
 
Interesting way of looking at it. I'm not sure if I agree, but it makes some sense.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Lame Thrower,

i saw every ounce of humor in your post...were cool....


Slack,

I appreciate you answering the post and i see your point....i try to be careful with my recommendations,but i sometimes see them necessary.... and im not starting this up again, but in a recent post, some guy was told that he should stick with the pre's in his 4 track before spending $300-$400 for a new one because something in that range wouldstill suck.....

i agree that most of the mic/pre stuff should go to Harvey,RE,Ed,Bruce, etc.....but for some of the budget minded ones, i feel ive gotten my feet wet enuff and played with enuff stuff that im safe in the under $300 range, $400 on a good day.....past that im lost and clueless in most cases.....

so i also apologize for bringing this thread back to the top.......
 
Gidge wrote:

"in a recent post, some guy was told that he should stick with the pre's in his 4 track before spending $300-$400 for a new one because something in that range wouldstill suck."


Gidge,

If you were referring to my comments, your memory is slipping.

1.) Skycries said he was recording into his VS890 and using a Behringer that was too noisy. I said nothing about either one.

2.) I didn't say anything in the $300 to $400 range would suck; I said "Perhaps the best mic pre for under $300 is one of the used Mackie 1202VLZ PRO mixers on ebay, which regularly sell for about $275."

You said, "the Delta DMP3 for $179 is 2 channels of a BETTER preamp than the Mackies....."

To which I replied, "Cool!" And Chess backed up your opinion.

So what's your beef?

Mark H.
 
Mark, i was not referring to you dude...i found your reply very much in line with my thinking......

Skycries asked for a pre between $300-$400 to mic a guitar cab with a sm57..replies:


"This isn't what you want to hear, but it might be what you need to hear. Save your money and save yourself months of cutting cut-rate tracks -- wait till you have the bucks to do it right.

If you're just going to cut one or two tracks per song with this sort of mic pre then by all means go ahead (if you buy from a store with a good return policy), but if you plan on tracking a lot with it, just be aware that you're going to get a build up of unpleasantness that's going to be just as much a pain to deal with as the sound you'll get not working with a pre at all.

Don't be fooled -- comparing them side by side on single instruments in the store doesn't tell you the story. Laying track after track and hearing the accumulated sound will indeed tell you the story.

It's hard advice, but sound advice. Buy tools that you're going to want to use further on down the road when your ears evolve -- that's not to be offensive; ALL our ears are evolving all the time if we're keeping up with this gig. A cheap pre, though it will have some limited uses it might work quite well for, will not be adequate to track main vox and guitars most of the time. A year down the road your ears are going to tell you this and you're not only going to have to pony up all the loot for a better pre at that time but you'll probably also have a year's worth of mediocre tracks to deal with.

If you're part of the way to a decent pre, be patient, exercise some discipline, and then get something you're going to use next year and the year after that as well.

You're building a toolkit. I know it's hard to be patient, but learning this lesson will -- in the long run -- save you money. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this thought isn't new with me -- someone went to the trouble to spell it out for me, and though the advice didn't exactly make me happy, I've since come to recognize its value.

Cheers and good luck whatever you decide." EMPTY PLANET



"Good advice, EP! " BRUCE



"No. Not "good advice" Bruce,......excellent advice.

People here seem to buy cheap claiming to have a financial problem and of course they are right. Who can afford a Neve pre amp going for over $2000?........

Yet when there was a post about mic cabinets a while back, it seemed that many owned several cheap mics and more then 2 pre's. Add that up and you get a lot of equipment that costs a lot yet wont bring your audio up to another level.

For most homerecordist, 2 mics are sufficient unles they are recording a kit.
A good condensor in the $600 and over range and a sm58/57.
That will get you excellent results and cost around the same.

Whats the point in owning 2 c1000's.... 1 Marshall....3 sm57's...a 4033? owning a lot of mics and pre's wont get you any closer to a pro sound at home.

As Ed used to say (and is dead on) buy cheap buy twice......
I would dump 8 cheap pre's for 2 good ones and 18 cheap mics for a single good condensor and coil mic." SHAILAT


"And I thought all homers want pro results or at least claim to be able to reach such results......if so even more so what I said shopuld apply to him.
Remember its HOMErecording and not Amateur recording site.

It has nothing to do with what he does at home.
I would think most people would search for the best they can get be it for fun or not.

It's my outlook and he can take it or leave it.

If he's doing simple home demos then my personal advice would be save your money and work with your current pre. You can get fun results out of it. Don't waste away $400 worth of extra pre's.
Each to his own......" SHAILAT



"If he doesnt need a pair, I would suggest selling the Behringer on ebay and hopefully getting $100 for it, taking the $400 he already has and buying a Grace 101, or saving another month or 2 and getting a Brent Averill API 312 racked with power supply, which will be huge to him and resellable for close to what you pay." TUBEDUDE


and then there was the best preamp under $300 poll, 21.21% (over 1 out of 5) said "dont be cheap, save your cash".....


"It also basically depends on how critical your own ears are ... I started out thinking the difference between the BT and other tube pres was going to be negligible in the final mix based on what I heard in trying it out ("yeah, it's $1,200, but is it really $1,050 better?"). Now, my ears are much more fine-tuned and the differences are important to me. But maybe not to everyone. And maybe you have better recording/mixing/micing techniques and gear than I and can get a bona fide killer sound out of cheaper gear. So many variables" GEEKGURL



"I beleive Ed said it best when he said "Buy cheap, buy twice..."

'nuf said... " BRUCE


"ok, i just started reading this thread 10 mins ago for the first time, and the question that came up to my mind is,
"are these pres under $500 really gonna make a noticeble difference to my ears compare to my Behringer mixer's pres??"

I have struggled with either getting a pre or not for a long time, and concluded with Grace 101 once I save up enough. This was backed up by a sweetwater salesman. He pretty much stopped me from buying anything under $500 at their store and told me to use my Behringer and wait until I can afford Grace 101.

Now, is this cool DMP3 really gonna be a jump (let's say a $200 jump) from my Behringer pres? Or is it just a huge jump for people who don't own ANY pre?

before you try to talk Behringer down, just let me say this real quick, I have faith in my mixer's pres JUST because everyone is talking them down, and most of all, they rob Mackie for the poor. lol" A1A2
 
"So if 10 guys like me just bought a V67 as their first LDC, and we all hop in to a thread to recommend it because we happen to own it, then our amature opinions are greatly inflated in what could be an unhealthy way" Slackmaster2K

yeah if you get a v67 and its the only condenser youve ever heard, it would be a bad thing to go shoving it down peoples throats....i tried MANY lower cost condensers before i took Harveys advice and tried the v67.....

i spent about4 hours in Guitar Center one night with a Pod, J-Station, and a DG Stomp side by side before i decided what i liked...j-Stations rule....

I spent many many hours playing lower end guitars from Fender Squiers to Fender Mexicans to Yamahas to Ibanezs and the list goes on....i can tell ya $$$ for $$$, Yamaha makes a better budget guitar than anybody......

preamps are hard to judge in noisey environments like GC, but Midiman Audio Buddys, Delta DMP2's, and Joe Meeks are some dame fine preamps......

and we all know how i feel about Delta Soundcards and Aardvark soundcards.....

sure i learned about some of this stuff from guys here (but havent we all), but alot has been just spending time trying this stuff out....which really kinda pisses me off when i recommend something and i hear the cliche' "have you actually tried one, Gidge".....

if we learn stuff here and dont pass it on, we are doing a terrible injustice.....

like i said before, i didnt invent the wheel, iprobably couldnt build the best wheel, but i can definitely get someone thru building one.....

peace....
 
let's go back to mics, great!

yeah, let's forget this ever happened. We can even delete it.

Cheers, Andrés
 
my morning routine to be altered....

WOW

I thought everyone would have run out of piss by now....

***********

I am relatively new to this board/world/field of home recording.
I try not to unload on people when the say things that I disagree with just cuz I am having a bad day.
I include smiley faces or <sarcasm> tags to show the tone of my statements.
I love a healthy debate or a heated discussion.
This is not a debate.
Let it go.
All things forgiven.


(repeat)

************

Now back to our regurlary scheduled WWF style "I said you said" cage match.

(where's my folding chair....) :D :D


nP


Andrés you are right. Let's get back to mics already
 
Gidge, man, I was never directing my comments at anybody specifically, I promise.

I just think that sometimes the recommendation threads can get a little carried away, that's all. I didn't have any specific threads in mind. I didn't even mention your name. I mentioned the V67, in fact, because *I* own one.

At any rate, let's just chill. I'm taking off for the weekend and I hope this thread is dead by the time I get back. :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
Well, I'm glad nothing happened here. I mean this thread never happened, right? Glad to see Harvey back in full force and my apologies to Chessrock. Fine, I won't kill you or hate you for the rest of my life but I still think you deserve at least a kick in the nuts!!!

Peace
 
Slack,

i promise that NONE of my anger/frustration/disappointment was directed at you...this has been something going on for a while now and it just manifested itself here in front of you, an innocent bystander....

i just hope that thru all of my ranting at least 1 or 2 people see me in a different light......
 
toldja/C3000b

I told ya guys this when you were flaming that Alan guy who sells Studio Projects stuff, that if you kept bashing people's opinions in such a non-intelligent way, then they'd go away..maybe this is a good lesson to tone down bashing somewhat.

If I had money I'd buy a studio projects C2 and review it, and talk all about it..and if someone didn't like my opinions, then oh well..but they're mine and even with the depression/anxiety/ADD bull, I still know I have a good ear for things..

I like my C3000b...yes, I found out they are electret, which pisses me off because I don't like knowing they will die over time..but still, AKG says the loss will be about -3db over 20 years <Unless you drop them>..that's acceptable..because they 'sound' good to me..they don't have that cheap condenser sound of being bright and crisp..they sound very warm to me, and have a darker sound...kinda darker in like a Neumann TLM193 vs a TLM 103..
..I never mic'd a violin with one, but I'd bet it would work, because it would, sorta like I hear ribbon mics do, take the edge and harshness off the bowing....if you buy LD condensers just for vocals, then I'd say get one..if you buy them for other stuff, I'd say get 2..for the price, they sound really good to me...I've never mic'd a guitar amp with one yet, but I'd give it a whirl..they sound good as overheads too, because they take away some of the harshness of cheap cymbals that most drummers tend to have...depending on my mood, maybe I'll mix with the overheads primarily and use spot mics to fill in the kit, or maybe I'll EQ down stuff below the cymbals' freq. response, and use the overheads as cymbal mics/hat, and then turn up the spot mics on the kit more..either way, for $300, I'd say it's a really nice mic, and the shockmount costs $100 by itself, and is fairly decent..I just wish it wasn't elecret.

--Sal

PS, listening to a mic solo'd isn't always the best way to review it.

PSS, like my ECM8000/TLM103 post, you never know what might sound 'best' for a particular instrument/song

PPSSSSSSSS, It never hurts to have another mic, because like an artist, you can never have enough colors to pick from..

PSSSSSsssssssssssss - ..If you record an entire song with just 1 mic, then you'll hear coloration buildup if you have ears for that sorta thing..I've mic'd an entire drum kit except for overheads and kick with SM57's, and the guitar cabs with 57's, my first recording I ever did, and I can 'hear' the 57..

pSSSSSSSSSssssssssssppspspss - 57 is a good mic tho :)
 
oops

OK fine, C3..I forgot they called the tube one with a T insted of just going up 1,2,3,, so I figured the multipattern condenser version of the C1 was the C2..so change that C2 to a C3.

-sal
 
hello, gents!

i know this issue has been laid to rest and all, but i just thought that this subject could use a woman's point of view:

lucho, i think you deserve a kick in the %$#& for passing judgement on chessrock. as a matter of fact, i think that all of you who jumped to harvey's defence and lambasted chessrock should all go to bed without dinner. don't you realize that you all just proved chessrock's point by doing that? shame on you! all of you to bed without dinner!

to chessrock: you are normally a gentleman, and i enjoy your posts. but you need to drop some of your lame attempts at humor. sometimes, they come accross as being too brash. i understand your humor, but then i am probably from your era. someone like harvey at age 65 isn't used to the same humor we grew up with. so chess, off to bed! no dinner for you either!

and harvey: at 65, you should know by now the difference between a well-meaning, constructive, mildly-critical comment and a personal attack. i read his comment several times, and i can see his rebellion, but nowhere did i see anything resembling a personal attack. i didn't even think it was negative.

so harvey, you too! off to bed, harvey, and no dinner, either!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

love and kisses,

daisy
 
Daisy,

I sure don't want to start this whole thing up again, but I don't think you understand the whole situation.

I've been around the music industry for about 50 years now, and I've usually had a pretty good reputation as a designer, producer, manufacturer, engineer, consultant, songwriter, player, producer, etc.

I've designed guitars, microphones, amplifiers, speakers, effect pedals and more for some of the biggest companies in the music industry, including JBL, Acoustic Control, Morley, Gibson, Fender, Peavey, Yamaha, Charvel, Jackson, Ross, Hondo, Delta, and quite a few others that I'd hafta think about for a while to remember.

Most of my friends in the music industry were/stiill are pretty high powered names, and up until 1978, I hung out with what most people would consider the "legends" of the music industry. I was on a first name basis with Jimi, Janis, Zappa, Morrison, Ronstadt, Bloomfield, Freddie Gruber, Ornette Coleman, Albert King, Lightning Hopkins, Merle Travis, Peter, Paul, and Mary, Eric Clapton, and a whole bunch more people that I won't bore you with. Let's just say, a whole lot more.

I got back into the business in the late 80s for a few years, but then kinda just got out of it for a while and opened a small studio for my own use. When I got on the "Net" about 5 years ago, I found that some of my friends were still around, and I wound up hanging out mostly at rec.audio.pro where a lot of people still knew me.

At the same time, I found I really had some real enemies out there that I knew nothing about. One guy hated my guts for designing the JBL speakers, another thought I was the single cause of the destruction of rock and roll for designing the old Acoustic amps.

And if I joined a chat group about someone I knew from the old days (like Jimi or Janis, or Frank Zappa or Jim Morrison), I was called every name under the sun for even daring to claim that I actually knew these people. I stopped visiting chat groups altogether.

For the most part, I now only hang out at places where people actually know me, or places that have people there from my past, like rec.audio.pro, Al Schmitt's forum, George Massenburg's forum, or on my own forum.

homerecording.com is probably the one exception I make, but only because Weston Ray is here and I keep getting quoted by people here about things I've posted on rec.audio..

Sometimes I get a lot of flack on rec.audio.pro for recommending some of these low end products. I'm usually very careful about what I say there, simply because there are some really knowledgable people there who would tear me to shreds if I made any wild claims, people like Neumann's Karl Winkler, Schoep's David Satz, and representatives from Shure, and a lot more heavy hitters. So far, I still have a pretty good reputation there.

When chessrock said "just because Harvey says", that was what hit me hard. I happen to agree 100% with all his sentiments, but those 4 words hit me way harder than they should have, and I kinda went ballistic at that point. It was almost like implying that I was making this stuff up as I went along.

When I recommend something, it's usually because I've really gone into it pretty thoroughly, like the "Under The Hood" thread we had here about the differences between the V67G and the Studio Projects C1. I actually tore both mics down to their bare frames. It wasn't a "just because Harvey says" exercise. I was pretty complete in testing these two mics, and chessrock's words just hit me hard, being in a rotten mood to start with.

I realized that chessrock wasn't blasting me per se, but it still hurt, and I reacted - badly, I might add.

Anyway, daisy, that's the whole story and maybe it'll help you and others understand where I was coming from.

When John Denver died (I played bass for him at times), it hurt. When Hoyt Axton died (we were pretty good friends) it hurt. David Van Ronk stayed at my house several times, and it hurt when he died on Sunday. I never met Waylon Jennings, but he was my age. In fact, all these people were my age or younger. It makes me aware of my own mortality, and that scares the hell out of me.

Maybe some of these threads will end up being my legacy to a younger generation; I don't know. Life is way too short and precious to waste on silly arguments. I'm gonna try and make sure it won't happen again.
 
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