Building my Microphone Collection over the next year...need help

  • Thread starter Thread starter JPXTom
  • Start date Start date
JPXTom

JPXTom

New member
Alright so basically, im building my mic collection for my studio/band. We're alt rock stuff..kinda jimmy eat world/mae/cartel, so i need good mics for that kind of stuff...Heres my list compilation so far:

Vocals:
SM58 for live, AT4040 for recording

Guitar:
Audix i5, SM57

Bass:
Idk, i'd probably do line out or mic it with a D112/Beta 58 or both.

Drums:
MXL 604s as overheads, SM57 on snare, D112/beta 58 on kick.

For my kind of music and stuff(crunchy, poppy guitar, higher pitch "softer vocals"), is this setup gonna sound pretty decent?
 
No reason not to use the 4040 for live sound, IMHO. Just because you can get away with a muddy sound live doesn't mean you should. :D

Male or female vocalist?

For guitar cab miking, you might also consider some of the Chinese ribbons (e.g. Apex 205). Ribbons are a favorite of mine for all sorts of stuff from tenor vocals to brass.
 
JPXTom said:
Alright so basically, im building my mic collection for my studio/band. We're alt rock stuff..kinda jimmy eat world/mae/cartel, so i need good mics for that kind of stuff...Heres my list compilation so far:

Vocals:
SM58 for live, AT4040 for recording

Guitar:
Audix i5, SM57

Bass:
Idk, i'd probably do line out or mic it with a D112/Beta 58 or both.

Drums:
MXL 604s as overheads, SM57 on snare, D112/beta 58 on kick.

For my kind of music and stuff(crunchy, poppy guitar, higher pitch "softer vocals"), is this setup gonna sound pretty decent?
Click to expand...

In and of themselves, those mics will not inhibit you from making good recordings.
 
Well, im looking for advice mostly on vocals...i was considering getting a nady rsm-3 just to have a ribbon mic around. Its a male vocalist, btw...higher-pitch male vocalist...so if any help can be given in the vocal mic section, it would be appreciated.
 
I don't have experience with the Nady mic, but will tell you what I do have for vocs - Shure KSM44, Michael Joly modded Oktava MK319, MXL V67g and a new version Studio Projects B1.

The KSM44 is a very natural sounding mic with a little lift in the top end, the Joly MK319 has beautiful top end clarity with no sibilance while having a little more color in the mids, the V67g has some sizzle up high with more of a dark bottom end and the B1 is just plain jane natural.

Used, you could get all of these for between 800.00 to 1000.00. They could probably cover most anything a home studio could ask for - as could many other options. If I could only keep two of these mics for vocs it would be the KSM44 and the Joly MK319.
 
tkingen said:
I don't have experience with the Nady mic, but will tell you what I do have for vocs - Shure KSM44, Michael Joly modded Oktava MK319, MXL V67g and a new version Studio Projects B1.
Click to expand...

Excuse me for jumping the thread but is the new B1 much changed from the first release ? Improved or otherwise.
 
Alright..well that gives me an idea for recording vocals...but how about live sound vocals? I was kinda just going sm58 due to its popularity.

Oh also, i think the Oktava is probably in my price-range for vocal condenser..so i'll probably get that. The Shure seems really nice, but i cant spend all that on 1 mic...i mean, obviously im gonna spend the most on a vocal condenser, but the most i want to go is like 450-500.
 
JPXTom said:
Well, im looking for advice mostly on vocals...i was considering getting a nady rsm-3 just to have a ribbon mic around. Its a male vocalist, btw...higher-pitch male vocalist...so if any help can be given in the vocal mic section, it would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The Apex 210 (Nady RSM-2) is a good choice for that, IMHO, particularly if you mod it with a better transformer. I'd imagine the 205 would be slightly better because of less body resonance. If you get a Lundahl LL2912, it should be a five minute mod... or maybe ten if you've never soldered before. :D

That said, if you'd prefer to go condenser for the vocalist, I'm a fan of the CAD M9 on tenors. Not too bright, not too dark. Depending on the style of music (for blues in particular), I often prefer a slightly darker tube condenser like the ADK Generis GT-2.
 
I've never modded so much haha, at least with music equipment. I never want to screw around with stuff like that..unless its maybe like u know, pickups on a guitar or something. But i was thinking of having a ribbon mic more for guitar amps...but if they sound good wiht vocals, then that'd be cool. Either something good with guitar amps(around 100-200 bucks), or something thats decent for both(same price range). Im a bit more comfortable i guess with condensers..so vocals i'd probably go that route with an AKG, Audio Technica, MXL or Oktava....or any other brand that someone would like to suggest. And its not a blues kind of music or voice, just so you know. But if those mics you suggested sound good on any voice, id be willing to see how they are.
 
Too bad you missed out on the last "group buy". I will be starting another one soon.
 
JPXTom said:
I've never modded so much haha, at least with music equipment. I never want to screw around with stuff like that..unless its maybe like u know, pickups on a guitar or something.
Click to expand...

Swapping transformers is about the same level of difficulty as swapping pickups. It's pretty much unsoldering four wires from the old transformer and soldering four wires from the new one in their place. It's the "even a monkey can do it" mod. :D

BTW, you should set your location in your profile. That way, if anybody on the board is near you, they might let you try some mics.
 
You might want to consider a high quality dynamic for vocals as well. Something on the order of an Shure SM7 or an EV RE-20. Not too expensive, especially used, and really great as a vocal mic. Much more forgiving of imperfect recording environments as well. Also useful on cabs, drums, etc. Personally, I'd pick one of those over a low priced condenser anytime. I've had my SM7 picked over much more expensive condensers so frequently that I bought another one. People have spoken well of the Heil mics as well, but I've not had the chance to use one yet.

Nothing wrong with an SM58 for live work. I personally prefer the Audix OM-6 or the Beyer M88 for live rock and roll, but its kind of a matter of taste in that regard.
 
dgatwood said:
No reason not to use the 4040 for live sound, IMHO. Just because you can get away with a muddy sound live doesn't mean you should. :D
Click to expand...

With the description of the band, my bet is that using a 4040 live would be disastrous. Even if you could stop the feedback and get enough output to the PA, the bleed from the band would probably sound horrid.
 
xstatic said:
With the description of the band, my bet is that using a 4040 live would be disastrous. Even if you could stop the feedback and get enough output to the PA, the bleed from the band would probably sound horrid.
Click to expand...

Cardioid is cardioid is cardioid, give or take, and feedback is loop-driven, not transient-driven, so I don't see how an SM5x is going to do significantly better at feedback rejection except by virtue of rolling off everything from 12 kHz up. I guess if you're within an inch of the speaker, it would do better.....
 
The science makes sense, but in real life situations having a large diaphragm condensor on vocals on the front line of a live show with a loud band behind the singer is a certain recipe for disaster. Pattern, frequency response, monitor angle etc... all have different effects on feedback issue, but the sensitivity of a large diaphragm condensor on the front line like that outweighs all of those other factors by a long shot. Put it on a guitar cab or overheads though and this typically does not represent much of a problem. In the end a standard dynamic vocal mic is not just better, but is definately significantly better at usable output volume compared to feedback then a typical large diaphragm condensor.

Try it out on stage sometime. You will instantly see what I mean. There is a reason why virtually no one puts a large diaphragm condensor on vocals on a large stage. Even with in ear monitors, more often than not reaction with the mains is enough to stop this from working.
 
xstatic said:
(snip) - There is a reason why virtually no one puts a large diaphragm condensor on vocals on a large stage.
Click to expand...

Come to think of it... I don't think I have ever seen an LDC on any stage. I have seen a few SDC, but only with a very small group on the stage. And, I'm pretty sure those were hypercardioid or supercardioid.
 
xstatic said:
The science makes sense, but in real life situations having a large diaphragm condensor on vocals on the front line of a live show with a loud band behind the singer is a certain recipe for disaster. Pattern, frequency response, monitor angle etc... all have different effects on feedback issue, but the sensitivity of a large diaphragm condensor on the front line like that outweighs all of those other factors by a long shot. Put it on a guitar cab or overheads though and this typically does not represent much of a problem. In the end a standard dynamic vocal mic is not just better, but is definately significantly better at usable output volume compared to feedback then a typical large diaphragm condensor.

Try it out on stage sometime. You will instantly see what I mean. There is a reason why virtually no one puts a large diaphragm condensor on vocals on a large stage. Even with in ear monitors, more often than not reaction with the mains is enough to stop this from working.
Click to expand...

I have. I do it all the time with our church choir (with electric guitar, amplified acoustic, bass, etc.) when we're out on gigs. We always use condensers for our sound reinforcement, and I make it a point to use an LDC for the tenors.

I've even seen a dozen or so LDCs used for live sound reinforcement over our diocesan choir while competing against about a dozen instruments, percussion (incl. timp), organ, piano, and keyboard in a hall the size of a small convention center. (In fact, it was at a convention center.)

Finally, I've never seen a single wireless headset mic that wasn't an electret condenser. I'm sure somebody builds one, but I've never seen them in use.

The argument that condensers aren't usable for live use just doesn't hold water in my experience, so long as you are singing about as close to the condenser as you would a similar dynamic. If you back off so you have to have higher gain, of course, you'll get more feedback. The same is true if you backed off a dynamic. The only difference is that you generally wouldn't attempt that with a dynamic, while you might with a condenser. :)

As far as I can tell, most people use dynamics for stage use for two main reasons: 1. they are cheap, so if they break, they aren't out a lot of money, and 2. they are much harder to break.
 
First, a little electret condensor is not at all like a LD condensor in terms of managability. Second, I never said that condensors were not usable. I use LD condensors on stage quite frequently. On vocals for a rock band though? Not a chance. Third, miking a choir with LD condensors is not at all like putting one on the singer in a rock band. Not only are the logistics better with the choir, but you aren't trying to get 100+ db of sound out of a wedge 5 feet away. Fourth, at 12" off the mic you and a typical rock setup for wedges a dynamic mic will be MUCH more resistent to feedback and give a more controllable output and response. Like I said, there is a reason why you have probably never seen a rock band use a large diaphragm condensor on lead vocals, even when in ear monitors are used. I have personally mixed for probably more than 1000 bands and system teched for triple that. In all of those I have never once had an engineer or band use or even request a large diaphragm condensor for vocals. It is not because those engineers don't know any better or what sounds good, but because they know that doing this would cause tons more problems than it would solve.

As for the reasons why people do not use them that you gave at the end, I don't believe that for one second. Those reasons may be valid for smaller and local acts, but not for touring acts. I have worked with plenty of bands that use whatever they want. I have even seen U87's on stage on guitar amps, and once even a U47. Many bands have more than enough budget to use what they want, and more than that, ANY reputable sound company will provide at least an AKG 414 or similar equivalent if requested. I use LD condensors live frequently on Piano, as a second for acoustic, overheads, bass amps, guitar amps, percussion, etc... Vocals though? Not a chance.
 
I've seen it once, Brian Wilson used several LDCs for a capella ensemble vocals at the start of the show. Once they went to full band, it was back to standard dynamics (or maybe handheld condenser, I was too far to see).

Old headsets, like 20 years ago, sometimes were really crappy dynamic elements. I think AT made a few, maybe Shure, I don't exactly recall.
 
It's not unusual for bluegrass or acoustic bands to use condensers on stage. Alison Kraus, Patty Loveless, Del McRoury (sp?) and Ricky Skaggs come to mind.
I've seen Tears For Fears use KSM27's for live vocals.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top