Building my first DAW. Critique?

  • Thread starter Thread starter FolkDog
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FolkDog

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I used to build my systems by hand back in the days of Apple IIs and 386s. Then I got busy, so I've let Dell build them for the last decade. My old PC is getting dated now and it needs more memory, HD space and a better processor -- but I've also spent a bunch of money upgrading the CD Burner, Video Card, keyboard, mouse & Monitor. So, rather than buying a whole new Dell system with a bunch of parts I'd just swap out for my own, I'm thinking maybe I'll build a box again.

Done a little research and come up with the following part list on NewEgg. Comes to about $1300. My question to you, all knowing Homerecording.com BBSers is "What would you change?" Also, does anyone know if this fan and case are QUIET?!

It needs to be PC, because I'm stealing all the stuff I mentioned above out of my current system. This is a recording hobbyist system for a geek whose going to enjoy building the damn thing as much as using it.

My current soundcard is an Echo MIA. I'm also considering upgrading that while I have the checkbook open - but my max is $1500 so I'd have to cut somewhere else.

Parts list follows. Thanks in advance for your advice!!

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Thermaltake Blue Highest Xaser III Super Tower Chassis without Power Supply, Model "V1000D" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Case Type: Xaser III Super Tower
Color: Blue
Material: Chassis:1.0mm SECC Japan Steel, Front Panel:Aluminum
Drive Bays: 5.25'' x4,3.5''(External) x2, 3.5''(Internal) x6
Expansion Slots: 7
Front Ports: USB2.0 x2,IEEE1394 x1,Mic x1,Speaker x1
Power Supply: N/A
Cooling System: 80mm Silent Fan Front x2,Rear x2,Side x2,Top x1
Motherboard Compatibility: Standard ATX,Micro ATX,Extend ATX
Dimensions: 20.9''x8.1''x20.5'' (HxWxD)
Special Features: °C / °F display switch, 4 channel adjustable fan speed knob,Two way lock in front panel more info-> N82E16811133106 $129.00 $129.00


ASUS "P4C800 DELUXE" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL
Specifications:
Supported CPU: Socket 478 Pentium 4(HT)/Celeron Processors
Chipset: Intel 875P + ICH5
FSB: 800/533/400MHz
RAM: 4x DIMM support Dual Channel DDR400/333/266 Max 4GB
IDE: 2x UltraDMA 100, 1x UltraDMA 133(from Promise 20378) up to 6 Devices
Slots: 1x AGP Pro/8X, 5x PCI, 1x Wi-Fi
Ports: 2xPS2,1xCOM,1xLPT,8xUSB2.0(Rear 4),1xLAN,2x1394(Rear 1),SPDIF Out,Audio Ports
Onboard Audio: AD1985 6-Channel Codec
Onboard LAN: 3COM 3C940 GbE
Onboard SATA/RAID: Promise 20378, 2x SATA, RAID 0/1/0+1/Multiple RAID; ICH5, 2xSATA
Onboard 1394: VIA 1394 Controller
Form Factor: ATX more info-> N82E16813131449 $163.00 $163.00


Thermaltake W0010 Silent Purepower 480W with Black housing - Xaser Edition ATX 2-Fan Power Supply
Specifications:
Type: ATX
Maximum Power: 480W
PFC: Active
Power Good Signal: 100-500ms
Hold-up Time: >16ms at Full Load
Efficiency: >65%
Over Voltage Protection: +5V trip point<+6.8V;+3.3V trip point<+4.5V;+12V trip point<+15.6V
Overload Protection: Not specified
Input Voltage: 100 - 240 Vrms
Input Frequency Range: 47-63 Hz
Input Current: 8A
Output: +3.3V@30A;+5V@40A;-5V@0.3A;+12V@18A;-12V@0.8A;+5VSB@2A
MTBF: Not specified
Approvals: Not specified more info-> N82E16817153009 $65.00 $65.00


Intel Pentium 4/ 3.2C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail
Specifications:
Model: Intel Pentium 4 w/ Hyper Threading
Core: Northwood
Operating Frequency: 3.2GHz
FSB: 800MHz
Cache: L1/12K+8K; L2/512K
Voltage: 1.55V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket 478
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, SSE2
Warranty: 3-year MFG
Packaging: Retail box (with Heatsink and Fan) more info-> N82E16819116164 $277.00 $277.00


Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 8T - OEM
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Crucial
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 3
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820146541 $93.00 x4 $372.00


Western Digital 120GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD1200JD, OEM Drive Only
Specifications:
Capacity: 120GB
Average Seek Time: 8.9 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: Serial ATA
Features: Not specified
Manufacturer Warranty: 3 years
Packaging: OEM Drive Only more info-> N82E16822144151 $100.00 $100.00


Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD740GD, OEM Drive Only
Specifications:
Capacity: 74GB
Average Seek Time: 4.5 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 10000 RPM
Interface: Serial ATA
Features: High Performance SATA Interface
Manufacturer Warranty: 5 years
Packaging: OEM Drive Only
 
Last edited:
Looks pretty good.

If you don't need Firewire & Raid 0+1, you could go to a P4P800 mobo instead of the P4C800. Asus' implementation of the 865 chipset is just as fast as the 875. The $50-$60 you save could go toward another 1/2 gig of ram
 
Bulls Hit said:
Looks pretty good.

If you don't need Firewire & Raid 0+1, you could go to a P4P800 mobo instead of the P4C800. Asus' implementation of the 865 chipset is just as fast as the 875. The $50-$60 you save could go toward another 1/2 gig of ram
Click to expand...
Agreed.....that will be a rockin system. Im using most of that myself and have had good luck with ASUS hardware through the years. And yes, 1 gig of ram would be the ticket.
 
FolkDog said:
Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 8T - OEM
Specifications:
Manufacturer: Crucial
Speed: DDR400(PC3200)
Type: 184 Pin DDR SDRAM
Error Checking: Non-ECC
Registered/Unbuffered: Unbuffered
Cas Latency: 3
Support Voltage: 2.6V
Bandwidth: 3.2GB/s
Organization: 64M x 64 -Bit
Warranty: Lifetime more info-> N82E16820146541 $93.00 x4 $372.00
Click to expand...

This guy's already planning to throw in 2gig! I think that's a bit overkill.
 
hell yeah, ive been planning a very similer system

im thinking of trying to get two m audio 1010's to work together

peace
 
whattaguy said:
This guy's already planning to throw in 2gig! I think that's a bit overkill.
Click to expand...

Ah right, didn't spot that. Yeah 2GB is probably unnecessay. The bottleneck will be the cpu.

How about getting some PC4000 ram, so you can overclock with impunity
 
take a look at the Zalman power supplies and fans...very quiet!

I'm building too. Just recieved me 19" rackmount case. On Monday the rest gets delivered..

P4P800 Deluxe
P4 3.0
1 gig of PC3200 (400Mhz FSB) Kingmax memory (2x 512)
40 gig system drive and 160 gig recording drive at ATA133/'7200 8meg cache
DVDRWx12 for saving the big song projects
Zalman double fan 400w silent power supply (21Db)
120mm super silent Zalman intake fan
2 x 80mm Zalman super silend exhaust fans

expected PC noise in the studio...26Db


I you use outboard effects in a rack I'd consider a rackmount PC case, but apart from that your system looks great. What soundcard(s) are you using? I have Delta 1010 & Dela 410 x2 for 12in/24out back to the desk. The desk is an old (1989) Allen & Heath Saber 24/16/16/2...takes care of my mic pre needs and EQ

Good luck with the build...looks killer
 
Last edited:
Video Card?

Personally, I'd pass on the P4 and go straight to the Athlon64.
 
a guy a couple of days ago proved to me the speed of the new athlon 64.
previously the best time for noise reducing a 3 minute mono 44.1/16 bit track was 15 to 18 secs that i heard of.
as i was a computer engineer for years NR is the best test of a processor.
because every 2 byte integer in the wave file has to be addressed mathematically. ie a good dsp test. i would be curious what folks are getting
with the top range intel 3ghz processors by comparison.
this guy did the test and the 64 pounded through in just 1.75 seconds.
blew me away. thats the fastest ive heard of. anyone beat it ?
not even the mac g5 beats that as far as i know.
 
AMD runs a lot hotter than Intel. That means more cooling, obviouisly more noise.
 
More cooling does not automatically mean more noise. There are some very quiet cooling solutions out there.

Something I would like to try if I had lucre to burn would be to integrate a mini-split AC system with a CPU submerged in a mineral oil bath.

Chilly!!
 
LemonTree said:
AMD runs a lot hotter than Intel. That means more cooling, obviouisly more noise.
Click to expand...

That used to be true. A year or so ago, not anymore.

The new 64s run just as cool (or hot) as the Intel 3Gig CPUs. Prescotts were the processors with heat problems recently, if you've been in the tech loop - over a hundred watts of it, enough to light up a medium-sized room. The power dissipation specs of both CPUs are similar now, prescotts still run pretty hot.

Technically, they were similar even earlier, but the Athlons had two problems compared to Intel CPUs (which came with generous heatsinks, slow, quiet fans, an intgrated heatspreader, and built-in clock throttling). First, the surface area on the Athlon CPU was a lot smaller, there was no heatspreader. The second was that the fans that came in the box with the Athlons were fricking small, and therefore had to be fitted with fricking lound and fast fans...

All in the cost game. Now they're not playing that game anymore, Athlon64s are as good as Intels, and a lot better, too...
 
LemonTree said:
AMD runs a lot hotter than Intel. That means more cooling, obviouisly more noise.
Click to expand...

Strange. How come my 2500+ OC'd to 3200+ runs 5 degrees cooler than my P4 I am stuck with at work?

This "AMDs run hot" thing is something that used to be fact 3 years ago to something that is myth.

For a hot running chip, I direct you to the new Intel Prescott.
 
Sheesh. This is becoming an AMD v. Intel battle. I bet those happen alot here. :)

I updated my specs based on all of your kind advice -- although I think I need to throw in a few Zalman fans before I check out.

A couple of questions:

1. Windows XP Pro or Home?
2. Does anyone know the if the difference between the P4C800 and the P4C800-E is worth $6?
3. Suggestions as to a good source for a 4U rackmount case with nice fans appreciated. My studio is in an attic, so heat is always a concern. I wasn't loving the airflow on any of the cases on NewEgg.

Thanks again!

FolkDog

p.s. I negotiate hardware licensing deals for a living. I've negotiated deals with both AMD and Intel, and, believe it or not, the Intel guy was nicer. So, I'm going with the P4 no matter what the technical merit of the Athelon. :D



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Revised specs:


A+GPB 4U Rackmount chassis, Model "RM-4UM" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16811192010
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Crucial 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 8T - OEM

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ASUS "P4C800-E DELUXE" i875P Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813131464
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ZALMAN Noise-free 400W(PFC, ver 1.3)/ ATX12V power supply Supporting Intel P4 & AMD CPUs, Model "ZM400B-APS"
Item# N82E16817103213
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Intel Pentium 4/ 3.2C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512K Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

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Definitely get the P4C800-E - Asus fixed a lot of things on the earlier P4C800, like changing the position of the northbridge so you could get a big Zalman heatsink on there. They put the Intel Raid back on the southbridge, they took the LAN traffic off the PCI bus & gave it its own channel, a whole bunch of stuff.

I still reckon you should save the $75 & get the P4P800 board. Performs every bit as well
 
I negotiate hardware licensing deals for a living. I've negotiated deals with both AMD and Intel, and, believe it or not, the Intel guy was nicer. So, I'm going with the P4 no matter what the technical merit of the Athelon.
Click to expand...

Your loss, and frankly a very stupid decision when it comes to component selection for a DAW. Who gives a F**K who is nicer? Nice salesmen don't make systems run any faster.

Like I said before, what are you going to connect your monitor to? I see no mention of a video card anywhere...

The only reason you would need XP Pro is if you either have a dual processor system or need additional networking functionality (VPN, Remote Desktop Server, logging onto a NT Domain...). If not, save $100 and go with XP Home.
 
FolkDog said:
Sheesh. This is becoming an AMD v. Intel battle. I bet those happen alot here. :)
Click to expand...

It happens a lot here because people make ignorant statements like "AMD runs hotter than Intel".

p.s. I negotiate hardware licensing deals for a living. I've negotiated deals with both AMD and Intel, and, believe it or not, the Intel guy was nicer. So, I'm going with the P4 no matter what the technical merit of the Athelon. :D
Click to expand...

That's a really dumb reason to make a purchasing decision. If I am really nice to you, will you buy my old 800Mhz computer for $1000?
 
Wow. You are a hard a@@ bunch.

1. The first post mentions that I'm yanking the video card from my current system. It is a Nvidia geforce TI 500. I'm also yanking an HP CD burner, my old HD for the data, and my pathetic little Echo MIA.

2. I'll look again at the Mobos. I'm not seeing the significant price savings you mention - but I was mostly focused on figuiring out what the difference was with the -E.

3. OK XP-Pro is scrapped. My current system is Windows 2000 Pro, and all the extra network garbage just eats up headroom and makes it incompatible with my home network.

3. I'm dealing at a much higher level than "salesman" and I get a good feel for the management of the company and its long term prospects when I do these deals. Based on my personal experience, AMD is not a horse I would bet on in the long run. YMMV.

4. Yes, if you were nice to me you might just get me to buy your old junk for an exorbitant price. But you weren't - so no, I'm not interested. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Thanks again for all of the feedback - constructive and not. This BBS is a great resource and I appreciate your all taking the time to comment on my little project. :) :)
 
3. I'm dealing at a much higher level than "salesman" and I get a good feel for the management of the company and its long term prospects when I do these deals. Based on my personal experience, AMD is not a horse I would bet on in the long run. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Thats an interesting assesment considering Intel seriously missed the boat when it came to 64bit processors and is now playing catch up with AMD. I guess you missed the press release where they said they were just going to implement AMD's instruction set into their forthcoming 64bit processor.

Unless you plan to use this system for other things, the nVidia card would not be a wise choice if it is one of the newer cards with a fan (very noisy). What you really need for DAW work is a DualHead card with 2 outputs.
 
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