Building a custom Pedalboard, Cable

[Steve Henningsgard]

I'm tired of lugging around 6+ different cables to plug in and use my guitar rig! As such, I've decided to build my own pedalboard, including a custom cable carrying all signals to-from the amp. The pedalboard should be relatively simple, but the cable might not be. I need it to carry the following signals:

Guitar out
Channel/Solo pedal cable
FX loop out
FX loop in
9V power

which if I add it up correctly is about 8 signals + existing channel/solo cable. Now, the first thing that makes me worried is hum, for obvious reasons (9V power bundled with non-balanced cables = oh noes!), so this is where you all come in I need to know what everybody's recommendations would be in regards to the cable for this project, and any experience or insight would be appreciated. It'd just be nice to have one thick 20' cable to plug everything into, VS. all of these damn cables running around waiting to get tripped on & such.

-steve.h

 

[guttapercha]

I think you hit the nail on the head about the power. 9V powering several pedals might have a decent enough amount of EMF around it to induce hum. I would experiment first with your current setup by taping all of the cables together with the power lead and see if you can detect a hum. If you can, then there's no way it's going to work in a custom cable. If you can't hear one, than it might work in the custom deally.

As far as recommending brands o' cable, I'm clueless.

JD

 

[ggunn]

I think you hit the nail on the head about the power. 9V powering several pedals might have a decent enough amount of EMF around it to induce hum. I would experiment first with your current setup by taping all of the cables together with the power lead and see if you can detect a hum. If you can, then there's no way it's going to work in a custom cable. If you can't hear one, than it might work in the custom deally.

As far as recommending brands o' cable, I'm clueless.

JD

Clean DC will not induce hum. Phantom power (+48 VDC) is run through mic cables to condenser mics.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Clean DC will not induce hum. Phantom power (+48 VDC) is run through mic cables to condenser mics.

You know, I'm not sure why I didn't think of that; duh!

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Lookin' around parts express, would a cable like this work for all signals? I don't know much about what requirements 9v power / guitar signals have or anything...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=100-620

 

[ggunn]

I'm tired of lugging around 6+ different cables to plug in and use my guitar rig! As such, I've decided to build my own pedalboard, including a custom cable carrying all signals to-from the amp. The pedalboard should be relatively simple, but the cable might not be. I need it to carry the following signals:

Guitar out
Channel/Solo pedal cable
FX loop out
FX loop in
9V power

which if I add it up correctly is about 8 signals + existing channel/solo cable. Now, the first thing that makes me worried is hum, for obvious reasons (9V power bundled with non-balanced cables = oh noes!), so this is where you all come in I need to know what everybody's recommendations would be in regards to the cable for this project, and any experience or insight would be appreciated. It'd just be nice to have one thick 20' cable to plug everything into, VS. all of these damn cables running around waiting to get tripped on & such.

-steve.h

Is there some reason in particular that you need to run the FX loop out to your board? Stomp boxes usually run better at instrument level (what they are designed for), i.e., in front of the amp's input, than at line level, which is what the loop gives you. FX loops are generally for rackmount/line level effects.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Is there some reason in particular that you need to run the FX loop out to your board? Stomp boxes usually run better at instrument level (what they are designed for), i.e., in front of the amp's input, than at line level, which is what the loop gives you. FX loops are generally for rackmount/line level effects.

Really? That sucks 'cause stuff like my delay pedal don't actually delay the distorted signal, so as it gets quieter it has the effect of turning down my guitar, which sounds like butt... :/

-steve.h

 

[ggunn]

Really? That sucks 'cause stuff like my delay pedal don't actually delay the distorted signal, so as it gets quieter it has the effect of turning down my guitar, which sounds like butt... :/

-steve.h

Well, of course you should go with what sounds the best to you, and if you need effects to go behind the overdriven preamp, then that is the only way to get that.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Well, of course you should go with what sounds the best to you, and if you need effects to go behind the overdriven preamp, then that is the only way to get that.

Am I alone in thinking it sounds better to delay the distorted signal vs. the clean signal into the distorted signal?

 

[ggunn]

Am I alone in thinking it sounds better to delay the distorted signal vs. the clean signal into the distorted signal?

Well, I've done it both ways, and to tell the truth I never noticed a whole lot of difference. What may be significant, though, is if you are overloading the input of your delay stompbox by feeding it a line level signal, or if your delay is feeding an instrument level signal to the return of the loop when it is expecting a line level.

And of course there is the issue of all that extra cabling to patch your FX loop to boxes out front. I would try all your stompboxes in front of the amp's input to see if it's better, worse, or makes any diff before you go to all the trouble of patching the FX loop out there.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Yeah I think you're definitely onto something with the line vs. instrument level, 'cause it was breaking up/not sounding good in the loop. I thought it was due to a shoddy power supply, but your suggestion makes more sense.

The thing with delay is that when it's right after the guitar in the signal chain, it makes it much harder to adjust the volume in relation to the clean signal, as they are mixed together pre-pre-amplification/distortion which, as we all know, is a form of compression and thus, makes the difference between the clean and delayed signal much lower. Theoretically, putting the delay after the preamp would give one much better control over the clean/delayed signal.

In this case, I'd imagine my best option would be to get a rackmount effects unit, with a pedal of some sort. That way, I get the best of both worlds: a single cable going to the pedal vs. 2 or 3, better sound, and more options for sounds.

There's just that little thing about most rackmount effects below $300-400 sucking the last time I checked... :/ Thoughts?

 

[ggunn]

Yeah I think you're definitely onto something with the line vs. instrument level, 'cause it was breaking up/not sounding good in the loop. I thought it was due to a shoddy power supply, but your suggestion makes more sense.

The thing with delay is that when it's right after the guitar in the signal chain, it makes it much harder to adjust the volume in relation to the clean signal, as they are mixed together pre-pre-amplification/distortion which, as we all know, is a form of compression and thus, makes the difference between the clean and delayed signal much lower. Theoretically, putting the delay after the preamp would give one much better control over the clean/delayed signal.

I'm not sure I follow. The amplifier preamp does the same thing to both the delayed and straight signals; I'm not sure that it would have any effect on the ratio between the two. But you know your equipment and I don't. I'll just say that I have run delay both ahead of and behind distortion and have not noted the distortion mucking with the direct to delayed signal ratio when delay is first.

But whatever the case, I would just encourage you to at least try running all your stomboxes up front (and swapping their order around) to see if you can get "your sound" to happen before going to the trouble to do that patching to and from the loop. Theory is one thing; practice is another.