chessrock said:
If you've got too many tracks that are similar and they start masking each other ... phasing isn't going to be your issue, and delaying or flipping a track isn't your solution.
The knowlege you're trying to impart is very well-intended, and for that, I can certainly appreciate it. But from the standpoint that it's mostly inaccurate / misinformed, it ultimately doesn't contribute to the overall knowlege base we're trying to build on this site, and I think people should at least be aware of that.
It's basically the old addage about a little bit of knowlege on a subject being a dangerous thing. You seem like a fairly smart guy, so I'm sure in time you'll figure some of this stuff out, but for now, you're just kind of dangerous to yourself and others, and should thus come with a warning label.
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That's not at all what I was talking about, and you CAN get phase problems sometimes say with different guitar takes playing the same part. Regardless of what you and I want to bicker about, try it and sometimes viola it fixes the problem. In most cases it has to do with EQ but sometimes phase problems can happen from a different track, even if it's not the exact same bloody thing. I've had instances where I had a kick drum say, and beefed it up with a sample of a kick drum, there IS some phase cancelation if there is any latency to either of the tracks, try even automating a sample delay to start perfectly with the other track, and slowly out and back again. You might be amazed. It's not the same source, but a similar sound. Every time there is some latency introduced on either end it can cancel out some frequencies of one of the tracks (this might not always be bad, or too terribly noticable, sometimes can be a bitch tho), introducing sample delays WILL bring those frequencies back, if this problem is present.
I'm not trying to argue theory or anything of that sort with people on here. The reality is, this isn't an AES bbs, this is, from what I would think, a practical guide of how the average musician, producer, or engineer with a home studio can get really great results. In reality, what I suggested does work sometimes. Try it before telling me it doesn't lol. You can argue till the cows come home, but fact is, it does occur sometimes, and doing things like flipping the phase, or introducing minute ammounts of delay fowards or backwards (ususally backwards) CAN help. Some time when you are mixing on a desk or even in a daw, try flipping the phase of different instruments while the mix is playing, and sometimes sounds will suddenly jump out at you.
Regarding your last statement. . .
If I respond to someone who has a question, I'm going to tell them something that HAS WORKED for me, not just something that I'm picking out of thin air, or because I think I'm some authority on the subject (authority figures quite suck, thank you very much). I don't claim to be someone who is a genius of the theory of it all (while I know a bit, there comes a point where you need to just DO it, instead of theorize about the micro mechanics of it all). I'm more concerned with what the hell works and what the hell doesn't. If it works, I'll suggest it, but certainly if it doesn't give me any results, why the hell would I post it to someone?
Perhaps I'm a CIA disinformation agent, on a mission of utmost importance, which originated as a plan from lobbyists representing the big five media corporations, in a conspiracy to destroy all indie music by leading people on wild goose chases on internet forums, or maybe, I'm simply trying to help people out, and as you say contribute to the "community."
It seems like since I've joined here (haven't been on here for too terribly long), everyone is constantly trying to insult everyone else, and constantly trying to prove who is the biggest audio geek, which is more of a dick waving fest than anything. Trust me, the deafening roar of zippers being undone and peckers slid out every time someone has a practical question is enough to give me permenant tinitus! People are more concerned on here with their own internal politics and who is an idiot and who's super old school. Of course with these old school folks, by default that gives them infinite knowledge and wisdom on the subject, golden ears, and the respect of throngs of young tape ops and assistant engineers/gophers salivating about what it would have been like to have been born on time for all the 70s rock stuff that everyone idolizes these days. It's funny just how much grander things become when they die, whether it's a person, or an entire genre of music, or a band or whatever. When someone was alive they were a boozing abusive SOB who beat his kids half to death, cheated on his wife with transvestites, and gambled away all of his families money. When he dies he will be a dedicated, loving father; who was stern but fair, He had a lust for life, an adventurous spirit, and loved to have a good time. It's a bit like the throngs of aging WWII vets, hanging out in VFW halls, full of ideas about how they single handedly could fix society, filled with their infinite knowledge that surely would bring the world into a peaceful utopia, if only those damn kids would listen.
I love music, not science, and I don't honestly give two shits about what science is happening when I hear an amazing sound in a recording, that helps to bring the emotions of the song to life in front of me. Nobody listens to CDs of mathematical formulas to unwind. I care about what makes music sound great, and what emotional response it gives me, regardless of what John Q. Bumfuck PHD, says in his book "recording music: an outsiders guide for the impractical".
Humour aside. . . I'd encourage you to try out things before you attempt to refute them. The science of things is importal to a point to know and make it use in your favor, but it doesn't make you a great producer, or engineer, or really anything but, a great scientist, teacher, or writer of textbooks. There's nothing wrong with that, mind you, but it's an entirely different set of skills. Results, regardles of what theory is in place, or what actual physics are involved, are what makes great music, and what makes music sound great. I don't really care to argue semantics about it (seems like a lot of people like to do that around here, to ensure everyone is in awe at the amazing endowment living in their pants) Things like what I have suggested simply work some times, regardless of how much you, I, or anyone else argues about it, or how many black eyes are given by slamming people in the face with the iron clad holy bible of audio theory. Try it if you want to, or don't. I don't care. It won't keep me up all night, ripping out my facial hair, gnashing my teeth and tearing my garments in absolute horror. There are other ways to fix things like that, but it's simply another option that HAS worked for me and many people I've worked with from time to time.
I don't claim to know everything about audio, and neither should anyone else on here. Recording is always evolving with new equipment and new techniques show up all the time. We're ALL students of it, and should never lose that zeal to explore it further than we have the day before. It seems that once people believe they have it all figured out (not talkng strictly audio, just really anything intillectually in life), they cease to grow any more, and their knowledge becomes increasingly more theoretical than practical. In other words, when you fall into an intillectual trap of placing more importance on theory than practicallity, it tends to bring your skills toward that direction as well. But hey, we always need people to write textbooks and become teachers, don't we?
Anyway, I don't think I'm going to try to help anyone out any more on here, as every time I do, it just ends in a "my science knowledge is more vast than yours" dick waving fest, and it just ends up a waste of time, and no doubt confusing for the people asking the original question. I'll just sit back and see if anyone else has any cool bits of their experience to share, and keep things that have helped me before to myself. It is obviously not welcome, so I will not share it.
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