Borrowing Equipment

[guitarded2]

I really need some help on this one.

I'm playing a gig this weekend and we are the opening act so we aren't getting but half the pay as everyone else and they asked me to do sound for them which involves setting up for each band and letting them use my equipment. I've got a pretty decent set up (2-18" subwoofers two 21" folded horn subwoofers Yorkville mains/monitors JBL mains triggers for the drums going into an module tons of mics for drums guitars and vocals- sm57s beta52 sm58s beta57s beta58s...[I'm big on shure if you can't tell] and a mackie mixer) I said yes but for a hundred bucks. They said we will pay you what the other bands are making (probably about a hundred bucks) I said no. And they are offended. Every band plays a 30 minute set. Am I being unreasonable? We are the only band with decent equipment and it is a fairly large venue I'll probably only bring the 18" subs so I don't look like that much of an ass but honestly with an expecation of over 500 people in a large gym type place I think the folded horns would help.

What do you guys think on the whole subject of borrowing equipment?

 

[moresound]

IDK man. The wear and tear, your time etc. etc. even $100. is small potatoes.
You do this once for little pay and you have establish yourself as that type of guy.
Believe me your time, equipment, knowledge, I could go on and on is worth 5 times that amount at least.

Not to mention that you'll inevitably have some tag along friend of one of the other bands who will insist on running their sound for their set who won't have a clue of your systems limitations and you'll end up with something blown or even worst!

Stand fast to what you believe in for it's your equipment. Your worth every dime that you ask for.

 

[guitarded2]

IDK man. The wear and tear, your time etc. etc. even $100. is small potatoes.
You do this once for little pay and you have establish yourself as that type of guy.
Believe me your time, equipment, knowledge, I could go on and on is worth 5 times that amount at least.

Not to mention that you'll inevitably have some tag along friend of one of the other bands who will insist on running their sound for their set who won't have a clue of your systems limitations and you'll end up with something blown or even worst!

Stand fast to what you believe in for it's your equipment. Your worth every dime that you ask for.

thanks that helps alot. I just hate even thinking that I'm being selfish though. I always wanted to be able to help little people get started but I've learned recently after getting ripped off several times that its not that simple. I'm from a small town in the south I've been raised to stop when someones cars broken on the road and to always hold the door for a woman and never have your hand out asking for money just because you helped someone.

 

[moresound]

Same here but way up in the north.

Never sell your self short man you worked hard for that gear.
In my case it is what I do for a living and I don't leave the shop for freebees or close to it except for a few community shows that helps out a family in need or something similar.

 

[stevieb]

See, THIS is what's wrong with live sound, these days. Not to single you out- I know you are struggling with this, and trying to make some money, too, but there are just too many bands-with-a-PA, willing to take peanuts for allowing somebody else to use their gear. I do live sound, and I got started in it just like you and virtually everyone else- I had a band, bought a PA, and thought, "Hey, I can make a few extra bucks renting this gear out. I can undercut the pros and make myself some dough!" It gets to the point where you don't dare figure out what you are making per hour- there's the load-up at your house or storage space, the cost of said storage space or the inconvenience of tripping over the gear at your house, the cost of getting it there (gas, mileage on your vehicle, having a vehicle that can carry the gear or tow a trailer, the cost of the trailer,) the load-in, set up, sound check, running sound for the night, break down, load-out, driving home, being dog tired and deciding you will unload in the morning, getting a horrible night's sleep wondering if your gear, never mind your trailer, will still be in your driveway the next morning- or having to unload that night if you live in an apartment or a really dodgy area, sleeping late and having to unload in the heat of the day, remembering you have an obligation in ONE HOUR, etc. etc. etc. Like I said, if you take all that into consideration, you would probably find you are working for a net pay of about 24 cents an hour.

Don't become part of the problem. It's okay to want to make some dough from your rig, but the pros charge what they do because they know what their rig and their time is worth. moresound is right- that gig is worth many times more than a measley C-note, but I think he's light on what to charge- last gig I worked similar to that one, I got paid $950 for each show- that was gross, I still had to pay my mic tech, my roadie, get the gear there and home, pay taxes, etc. etc. Even working two shows, one Friday, the other Saturday, I still told my guys "Trust me, this is NOT the 'big boss man' getting rich on your backs." And that was true.

The promoters (and that's what they are) were "offended?" Bullshit. They pretended to be, but know this- it's business. And hang it up with the "I don't want to be selfish" stuff. I know you mean it, but put those thoughts out of your head. Sure, the promoters may lose their shirts on the show- it usually happens the first time around; if they don't have the stomach for it, they are in the wrong business (there's that word, again. See a pattern emerging?) And if they do not, do you really think they are going to come to you and say, "Gee, dude, we made out like bandits, here's some of the cash we raked in?"

Now, I am not being harsh, really, I'm not. Like I said, everyone in this, well, business who is doing this sort of thing, and went through the same thing you are facing. Stop being a chump and a tool, and join the real world/big time. And get paid fairly for it.

Welcome to the show. Glad you made it.

 

[guitarded2]

See, THIS is what's wrong with live sound, these days. Not to single you out- I know you are struggling with this, and trying to make some money, too, but there are just too many bands-with-a-PA, willing to take peanuts for allowing somebody else to use their gear. I do live sound, and I got started in it just like you and virtually everyone else- I had a band, bought a PA, and thought, "Hey, I can make a few extra bucks renting this gear out. I can undercut the pros and make myself some dough!" It gets to the point where you don't dare figure out what you are making per hour- there's the load-up at your house or storage space, the cost of said storage space or the inconvenience of tripping over the gear at your house, the cost of getting it there (gas, mileage on your vehicle, having a vehicle that can carry the gear or tow a trailer, the cost of the trailer,) the load-in, set up, sound check, running sound for the night, break down, load-out, driving home, being dog tired and deciding you will unload in the morning, getting a horrible night's sleep wondering if your gear, never mind your trailer, will still be in your driveway the next morning- or having to unload that night if you live in an apartment or a really dodgy area, sleeping late and having to unload in the heat of the day, remembering you have an obligation in ONE HOUR, etc. etc. etc. Like I said, if you take all that into consideration, you would probably find you are working for a net pay of about 24 cents an hour.

Don't become part of the problem. It's okay to want to make some dough from your rig, but the pros charge what they do because they know what their rig and their time is worth. moresound is right- that gig is worth many times more than a measley C-note, but I think he's light on what to charge- last gig I worked similar to that one, I got paid $950 for each show- that was gross, I still had to pay my mic tech, my roadie, get the gear there and home, pay taxes, etc. etc. Even working two shows, one Friday, the other Saturday, I still told my guys "Trust me, this is NOT the 'big boss man' getting rich on your backs." And that was true.

The promoters (and that's what they are) were "offended?" Bullshit. They pretended to be, but know this- it's business. And hang it up with the "I don't want to be selfish" stuff. I know you mean it, but put those thoughts out of your head. Sure, the promoters may lose their shirts on the show- it usually happens the first time around; if they don't have the stomach for it, they are in the wrong business (there's that word, again. See a pattern emerging?) And if they do not, do you really think they are going to come to you and say, "Gee, dude, we made out like bandits, here's some of the cash we raked in?"

Now, I am not being harsh, really, I'm not. Like I said, everyone in this, well, business who is doing this sort of thing, and went through the same thing you are facing. Stop being a chump and a tool, and join the real world/big time. And get paid fairly for it.

Welcome to the show. Glad you made it.

Thanks, you're obviously very experienced in the subject. I had no intentions of getting into live sound professionally I just wanted to be independent with my band which is why I got into recording. So you're right theyre looking it from a business perspective and I'm looking at it from a totally different perspective and they're trying to take advantage of that. I really appreciate the help I'm glad I posted here I was about to give in. You guys have saved me alot of trouble/expenses.

 

[moresound]

You know next they would have wanted you to throw in a lighting rig as well!!!!

 

[guitarded2]

Well heres the latest update we were told that they found another system to use for 50 bucks (peavey PV118 subs (2) some kind of peavey mains single 15s no monitors and a behringer powered mixer) Didn't say anything about mics. I still plan on bringing my stuff to use for our band. I wonder if theyre going to get offended?

 

[stevieb]

There's another lesson-
There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey
-Widely attributed to John Ruskin, but disputed by Ruskin scholars

 

[moresound]

Well heres the latest update we were told that they found another system to use for 50 bucks (peavey PV118 subs (2) some kind of peavey mains single 15s no monitors and a behringer powered mixer) Didn't say anything about mics. I still plan on bringing my stuff to use for our band. I wonder if theyre going to get offended?

That is still gonna be a lot of set up ..... hope they have the room for everything.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

$30/hr labor plus 5% of value of any gear you provide, including cables. Add for consumables like board tape, gaff tape, batteries etc. Add for miles outside your "normal" range of, for example, 50 miles. If you're renting gear mark it up by at least 20%.

 

[moresound]

Sooooooooooooooo .......... How did it go?

 

[guitarded2]

Sooooooooooooooo .......... How did it go?

played the gig didn't get paid everyone else did. I'm not a happy camper right now but I need some sleep so whatever...life sucks

 

[bouldersoundguy]

played the gig didn't get paid everyone else did. I'm not a happy camper right now but I need some sleep so whatever...life sucks

What I forgot to put in my last post was to get paid in full before you unload anything.

 

[stevieb]

Yep, we did forget to tell him that, didn't we?

But not paying is inexcusable. Truly sorry that happened, dude.

But, hey, wait a minute. We didn't know if the OP had, or had not, played a gig, before, we were only advising him on using his sound rig for the whole show, for peanuts- not on gigging as a band. OP- you did say you had been ripped off, before- I guess I just figured you were past the point of getting stiffed by the promoter/club owner.

There's gotta be a book, or at least a thread, here or somewhere, about how to not get taken advantage of- I mean, it's happened so many times, I would think somebody would write about it.

 

[moresound]

I have many long time BIG clients that I trust ..... anyone else gets the same treatment ..... 50% non-refundable deposit with the balance due IN CASH upon my arrival to the venue or I just go back to the shop.
Many a time there has been a scramble to a local ATM!
And I hate to do this to for I am of the old school of thought and third generation in this business with the up most respect of the motto*The Show Must Go On*

You should have done what the Blues Brothers did and drank $370. worth of beer.



BUT YEAH that sucks big time don't let this one time of butt munching weasels get to you.
Just be careful the world is full of them.

 

[guitarded2]

Thanks you guys the support is much appreciated everyone I know is whinning about it and asking me all these questions and I really just want to forget about it.

 

[stevieb]

Chances are HUGE that the promoter/club owner was thinking of doing that, anyway. Tell your band mates you are sorry it happened, and that if it gets cleared up they will get paid. Tell everybody else that you don't want to talk about it.