Biggest reason for music biz crash???

matttheaxe

matttheaxe

New member
I hear a lot of people talk about the "3 years ago" thing citing the recession.
I'm just not seeing the recession being the problem.
Having teen age kids and knowing their friends I would have to say the #1 reason is kids STEALING music off of P2P sites. I don't allow those programs on my computers, but their friends seem to have everything they like...thousands of songs on the MP3 players. All obtained illegally.
It's the same as the loss of jobs in the US. Everyone is sqawking about not having jobs and money when for the most part, they caused it by buying cheap Chinese crap over the last 20 years.

Who's really to blame here?
 
Society is to blame.

It has nothing to do with the economy or with the major big boy labels or with the RIAA.

Society has severly undervalued music to where its considered to be a cheap commodity to be played in the background while other more important things are happening (like texting and posting on Facebook).

That is the problem. The other issues are cited are merely economic issues that think tanks try and blame, but that's just collateral to the real issue that no one seems to realize.
 
Actually you'll be surprised. Despite illegal downloads, the music industry as a whole has been steadily increasing revenue. A pretty good chunk too. IE Lady Gaga sold over 40 million single downloads from 2 songs off her last album. Thats just 2 songs no printing/packaging. So now, you have artists generally making a tad bit more money, and quite a few are recouping their advances and making money themselves. You know what really happen? Is the music industry was slow in the changeover into the next medium of choice. They did do nicely when going from vinyl to tape to CD's, but from there to digital.. eh... The majority that you hear about "stealing" has already been done since people were able to dub their tapes. Your just looking into a easier medium of how many are being stolen. People are able to carry their whole bootlegged cd collection in 1 item instead of a bunch of cd's. Makes more sense to them. lol

As for sounds for commodities, that does not necessary mean downfall in the arts. It really means, more outlets & clients. Before, there was not much of a need for music except for the entertainment so to speak. These days, you have elevator music, on hold music, little games at theme parks. Sound reproduction itself, is now used ever more in life.

Thus more jobs. Someone has to do the ADR in motion pictures. Back a thousand years ago... no such thing...

Music has always had its medium it travels upon. We are just in a transitional stage. The business of music/audio has been a business for centuries upon centuries. Its not going anywhere.
 
I think mp3s have created a major paradigm shift in how people consume music. It used to be that pretty much everyone listened to what was on the radio. Now, individuals can go seek out new artists that matche their own tastes more specifically.

This means that you don't get as many major "arena rock" acts, and you have a lot more independent "bar" bands. On some levels, this looks like the industry is collapsing ("Oh no! The biggest of the bands aren't doing as well!"), but I think it's actually a more vibrant and creative industry now.
 
#1 reason:

Easy, the drug war.

That's where the money for the pay-to-play is coming from.

So if you want a hit record - buy $5M worth of coke or weed, sell it and make $50M, and use that money to pay to put your song in the #1 spot. Simple really.
 
Mindset said:
As for sounds for commodities, that does not necessary mean downfall in the arts. It really means, more outlets & clients. Before, there was not much of a need for music except for the entertainment so to speak. These days, you have elevator music, on hold music, little games at theme parks. Sound reproduction itself, is now used ever more in life.

Thus more jobs. Someone has to do the ADR in motion pictures. Back a thousand years ago... no such thing...
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And thus you prove my point. You just confirmed my commodity comment, while not backing up the downfall in the arts comments. Music on hold and in theme parks aren't there to be enjoyed as is. Music has become secondary to other primary features. Why only music? Why not other forms of art?
 
Seafroggys said:
..Music has become secondary to other primary features. Why only music? Why not other forms of art?
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I think the root of it is that if you point enough nuclear bombs at enough people, everybody gets scared shitless, and rightfully so.

And when you're thinking about bare survival, art is just not on the menu.

It's a reflection of the greed and corruption that's infected our society, because it doesn't need to be like this and it's a distortion of the actual reality that's around us.
 
Seafroggys said:
And thus you prove my point. You just confirmed my commodity comment, while not backing up the downfall in the arts comments. Music on hold and in theme parks aren't there to be enjoyed as is. Music has become secondary to other primary features. Why only music? Why not other forms of art?
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Because visually, our architects take care of the lather ;) Just as the Television was once a commodity of the rich into an age where a TV is in majority of households, we compare the same with sound in general. Or if you like, Music. The act of enjoyment is still there. The elevator music, is to make a person feel good, and enjoy riding that elevator, no matter how small that may impact. The music is placed there to uplift or to churn the emotions of the listener. The simple suspenseful music behind a DVD menu that may not at first interest you. But it serves its purpose in its own existence.

We have our eyes, and we have our ears. There are plenty of visual effects in majority of what we do. As well as some type of audio usually.

But I agree. Society as a whole, see audio as a commodity, and well... Honestly. Thats how it goes, since humans began its first medium of word-of-mouth to sheet music. It has always been a commodity. Unfortunately, the more musicians flood the streets with music, the more it becomes a commodity or fortunately however you look at it.

But overall, we should know that the industry itself is strong, and will continue to be forever until we parish. Audio production, this day and age, has now become an necessity.
 
Too many want to be stars

In the last 15 years or so, I have seen so many humans wanting to be stars. It is this "wanting to be" that caused the over population of musics.
1. The massive returning of Brand Named Artists
2. Technical ease in recording and mixing
3.Financial benifits from luring Artists rather then fans has greatly increased with the internet.
4. Free music seeping from the seams of successful music sites.
5.Pay to be played and pay to play live is a very lucritive business but it increases the population of Artists
6.Radio stations now play re-makes of known songs by unknown Artists. Listeners seem to be less then satified by this in some cases and stop listening to the radio stations.
7. The actual "crash" has already happened and now the entire world wants to be a star. It is an ego thing going on in our solar system.
8. Promoting music is not easy like it used to be in the early days of the internet. Compitition and expensive marketing tactics also hit the Artists where it hurts.
9. I am back on the net.
 
I'd say the economic crash had much more to do with it than you think, matttheaxe. I present as evidence the Rock n' roll summer camp I just worked. There is no way "stealing" music had anything to do with the camp's numbers, and the Executive Director told me that most of their camps were WAY down in enrollment this year, compared to last. Seems the slow-down finally caught up with them. Just my luck I get involved this year.
 
so kids have loads of illegal mp3s...i doubt theyd buy a fraction of them anyway and when artists release half a dozen singles of a single album then fook 'em..

since i started learning this recording malarky i listen to my own stuff most of the time as theres always something to learn from it...for other music its in the car (radio) or youtube..i havent bought an album in years yet though still go to gigs pretty regularly

theres a revolution in music at the moment and contrary to the loudness of the modern mix this revolution is pretty quiet
 
I tend to agree with VHS. The advent of the MP3 has made a dent in revenues for the typically bazillion-selling bands/artists, but the flip side is that the independent/underdog bands/artists are given an opportunity to shine. With all kinds of places to post their music, and with the easy transmission of digital files, a little bit of positive word-of-mouth (word-of-blog?) promotion can actually bring a level of success to small-time acts that would not have been possible even 10 years ago.
 
Whether there is a crash or not I can't say. But there is soooooo much music out there. Soooooo much choice. Some might say too much. I wouldn't.
But many people get to a point where you just don't go looking for anything new because you have enough to last you forever and a day. I was talking to this young guy in his early 20s a couple of weeks back and he was saying that he had, at his current age, as many CDs as his Dad had albums and CDs {some 2000+}. Someone was saying in a post last week that he had 6000 LPs. There simply comes a point where one reaches near saturation level - in addition to all the other points already mentioned - and those we haven't even thought of yet !
 
for the amount of promotion bands get from illegal downloads compared to the amount of money big labels scam from under their noses....yeah, i'd say you really can't.....ever....ever....blame piracy any more than a music video or a radio station...

it's a promotional tool....if your album is that good, they'll buy it anyhow.....but you wont make a dime......so sell it at your show......which people found out about...after hearing your bands pirated tracks......

piracy is saving the industry from corporate whores, frankly i'm damn thankful :)
 
Trail_of_ash said:
it's a promotional tool....if your album is that good, they'll buy it anyhow.....but you wont make a dime......so sell it at your show......which people found out about...after hearing your bands pirated tracks......

piracy is saving the industry from corporate whores,
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But won't people already have it - having pirated it ? :D
And is it corporate whores that are putting the industry in such a position that it needs saving ? ;)
 
yes....um...wait....no....YES

grimtraveller said:
But won't people already have it - having pirated it ? :D

YES, with mediocre sound quality, and without the nice casing/disc/liner notes/lyrics/etc. I find i'll buy an album if i enjoy it, and wont if i don't

And is it corporate whores that are putting the industry in such a position that it needs saving ? ;)
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yes...yes it is. The industry was going downhill, frankly piracy has helped in WAY more ways than it has hindered artists, especially unknown/indie label ones.
 
As I've said earlier in this thread, its not the piracy killing music, its the public's perception of music. When people start saying "to make money, sell t-shirts and merchandise and give your music away for free" there's something seriously wrong with people and their priorities.
 
Trail_of_ash said:
... frankly piracy has helped in WAY more ways than it has hindered artists, especially unknown/indie label ones.
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It might have helped people who make no money off of music (I think they're called "amateurs") but it has totally fucked the pro's.

Imagine what would happen to the film industry if Spielberg spent $100M making a film and made only $1000 back. He couldn't make any more films if that ever happened even once. That's what happened to the music industry.

What kept the recording industry going all those years was that regular Joe's didn't have record making lathes. If you wanted a top quality recording of your favorite artist you had to buy it. :eek: Today you don't. If they sold record making lathes at Kmart for $9.99 in the 70's it would have put the record making business out of business back then.

So ya the piracy has helped some good Indie musicians, kids on school buses with iPods and a zillion hacks but it has fucked the pros.

Plus there's no way regular people can compete with people making huge amounts of money off of the so-called drug war in raising the amount of money needed to promote album sales.
 
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