Best Tape Based 4/6 track old or new

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A long time ago when i was at college i had an argument with my lecturer(Must have thought i was an arrogant dick cause i had just been there 2 months). It was about analogue vs digital, his argument summed was, "well it's all going to be recorded onto a compact disc anyway". this really pissed me off. The fact is that ok, get rid of "the what sounds better argument",

One track recorded in digital in comparison to one track recorded in analogue, digital wins clarity wise, the analogue track may sound a little more muddy. (remember i'm staying away from what i think sounds better)

But... I told the lecturer, each track in an analogue mix has been given the same >characture< no matter how good or bad it sounds. This makes the mix meld together and sound more organic, makes it sound like one entity. You may well win with "trueness & clarity" with digital, but any digital mix i have ever made sounds pixelated, broken & confused. I live for new ideas & experimentation but only if it can be recorded in the end in analogue.

That really pissed him off. :p
 
Yeah, a 2" 8-track is exotic. To say the least. But he asked for "Best."

In theory, I guess you could make a 2" 4-track headstack (or half-track stereo, or even mono). At some point, though, the advantage of more oxide under the head gets undone by the impracticality of maintaining azimuth perfectly fixed. Even if the heads are absolutely rock solid, the tape will still "shimmy" a little tiny bit. So, as track width gets bigger, you gain signal, but distort it by applying a variable comb filter. It's no big deal if track 1 and track 24 are a 1/1000th of a second out of sync, so long as one's got rhythm guitar and one's a cowbell. If they're both the same signal things get more problematic.
 
Yeah,...

Not only that, but consider the extensive modification to the electronics to get the circuits to pump that much current into those gigantic heads!

I've always been somewhat in awe of those JRF Mega-Analog retrofit kits. 2" 8-track would be HUGE! :eek:
 
As far as four-track cassette goes, I would agree that the 424mkIII was the best of the later Tascam Portastudios. Probably the biggest reason that it is a better unit is the four xlr inputs -- that unfortunately didn't appear on any of the other models. As I recall, it even has phantom power on at least one channel. The first few series of Portastudios are still the best cassette multitrackers with integrated mixers ever made. These early 80s beasties were a staple of many in the lo-fi culture for 20 years and even boasted Bruce Springsteen among their biggest fans. However, if you have a good mixer, the sound is even better with the slightly newer rack mounted models. The only drawback on the older ones is that the belts weren't made to last for decades, but happily enough, belts are still available for all of them for under $20 with shipping.

IMHO, the only other really popular brand of four-tracks that weren't inferior by leaps and bounds was the Yamaha. They made really good machines that were comparable on many levels. Unlike the Tascams, the noise reduction is tidy, invisible and almost worth using. They do develop transport issues with heavy use and in my experience that leads to a rather carnivorous attitude toward the tape. All compulsive eating aside, they still are in the running with Tascam.

Eight track cassette is an adventure in compromises, but the folks at Tascam made the best attempts in the bunch. The 488 series was a decent deck, but also a crosstalking monster with a persnickity inboard power supply and only two xlr inputs -- one with phantom power. It has many redeeming features, but the reality is that cramming that much sound in a tiny space is really not practical. If you have a mixer, the rack-mounted models are superior in many ways including heads that aren't nearly as susceptible to crosstalk. Based on experience, I would not recommend any other brand of 8-track cassette, but I am open to surprises.

In the margins of multi-track cassette are many other decks. The popularity of the medium led to brave and sometimes awful attempts from a host of companies. I have heard mixed things about the Marantz multi-track units, but I fell hopelessly in love with their line of indestructible portable decks when I did remote recordings for the radio station, so I am willing to bet they don't stink. Among the others, there was a strange one from Ross that actually spooled the tape backwards. After dropping a mere $35 on a gently used deck, I used a badge engineered MR-402 for a few years and was pretty impressed. While it developed transport issues with heavy use, it really sounded fantastic and was very simple to operate. The tape ran faster than any other multi-tracker I have ever used and the response was really warm and natural. It was produced in the early 80s and I believe that among it's many guises, it was marketed as a Polaris, a Cutec and a Boss. A pleasing little oddball.

As far as multi-tracking with open-reel goes, well, there are alot of choices. In fact, far too many to really even scratch the surface. To narrow it down, the many prosumer decks have been talked about by very knowledgable members of this forum and I would recommend searching for great past posts about Teac, Tascam and Otari from the fellows who own them. The sound of these decks varies model to model and year to year, but many of them are more than pretty decent and were strudy enough to be used in broadcasting and commercial production applications. The parts are also fairly easy to come by and techs might be annoyed, but they are not afraid of working on them. These companies made good eight-track decks that allow you to create really nice sounds without going broke and that explains the rabid following. Do yourself a favor, don't buy a Fostex. If you don't like to ride a bicycle with a chain that comes off every few blocks, you won't like a deck that jettisons the belt on a whim. There is no support for these machines, fewer and fewer parts and fully functional examples to buy. Cheap is cheap is cheap. These are inferior in almost every way to the units they were competing with in the market, so spend an extra fifty bucks and get the Tascam or an extra hundred or two for the Otari.

Though we would all like a top-quality machine, one can't usually afford a nice example of the obvious and expensive ones from the rock era. Beyond the large investment one needs to just get a unit, they all require an expensive tech with alot of experience, patience and a cellphone for emergencies. If you got a bargain initially, you will usually be paying more and more to make it functional. Still, if you have a mixer and a few pieces of nice outboard gear, one can do quite well with the generation of professional units that served recording studios, cinema post and television & radio stations for a well over two decades. For the price of a newer prosumer deck, you can go for an old 1/2" production deck like an Ampex 440C or the Scully 280B. In addition to being pro quality with class A electronics and whatnot, these were total workhorses and had much better transports than their ancestors. The Ampex units even have a nice sounding pre-amp section. A good example can often be kept happy for years with basic maintenence and run you under $500 to start. The beauty of 1/2" four-track is that it is the same footprint as a 1" eight-track or 2" sixteen-track without the staggering costs of blank media. If -- like the best engineers of the 60s -- you are tight with arrangements and not scared of live ensemble recording, you can get a helluva sound at a fraction of the price of the larger units. In the end, while much of the process is similar, these are the polar opposite of the cassette four-track and can create recordings that will make you breathless.
 
Man, i wish i understood those last posts cause they sound damn good. :D
 
I know everyone loves the 246 but what about the 244, is there any other difference between the two models other than the extra tracks? Is it worth getting one?
 
The 244's a decent deck, but...

it's not as complex in the mixer section as the 246. The 246 has independent 6-input x 4-track mixing & track assignment capability, and records up to 4 tracks simultaneously in buss mode.

The 244 is a simpler 4 input-to-stereo mixer(L/R), and records up to 2 tracks simultaneously in buss mode. There's also a function to record 4-Direct-to-4-tracks, which is good, but there's no facility to record only 3 tracks simultaneously by direct mode.

F/i, a 424mkIII is able to record in any combination of Direct-mode tracks, 1-4. On the 244, you either record 2-tracks simul in buss mode, or 4-tracks direct. There's no 3-Direct recording option. If you record 3-tracks in buss mode, you'll end up with 1 & 2, but track 3 will be identical to 1. That's just a quirk, and not necessarily a drawback.

A nice thing about the 244 is that each channel has an Access-Snd/Rcv patch point, as well as the mixer having a stereo Aux-Send buss. That's plenty of patch points for patching efx. It has nice EQ and OL LEDs, too. It has a stereo cue monitor, which you don't find on more modern Porta's. 2-Headphone jacks! (the list goes on!) For it's time, the 244 was loaded with features, which in many ways still does have better features than many later model Porta's. It was the 2nd generation Portastudio, ever. El Numero Dos.

The 244's a nice, solid machine, but the 246 is noticeably more mixing and production power. For what the 244 gives as 4x2 or 4x4 (switchable) mixing/recording mode, the 246 gives a full 6x4 mixing/recording mode, full time. I know that probably doesn't make sense. :eek: On balance the between the 244 & the 246, the (3rd generation) 246 just gives you more and better features than the (2nd generation) 244.

I won't fool you,... I started on a 244 and have used it off & on this many years, and I always like to keep it handy. I know the 244 inside & out, and it's a good sounding machine with flexibility and a lot of creative potential. Sometimes you have to replace the belts & rubber parts, but they run for years & years (decades) if you take care of them. I won't lie & tell you I've never worked on my 244. I have, but I feel a deck like that is worth repairing, if necessary. Likewise, many decks I've come across have very little usage & in perfect working order, and need no repair. They're built like tanks. Need I say more.

I think the 244 is a great machine, & I have a great little 244 right here that I could show'ya. ;)
 

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Aw, heck,... they're both great decks!

Get 'em both!........ :eek: ;)
 

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They certainly look to be taken care of, i saw a 246 from italy on ebay that was in terrible condition, i would have bid for it and done it up but i went for the 414 on ebay. I won it on Sunday, paid straight after winning the auction but haven't recieved one email from the seller. I think she was a bit peaved at the price it went for, and mabye because i sniped it when it had 10 seconds left :D he he he. There was an absolute mint 246 going on ebay down south last week, i would have paid more than what i paid for the 414, but it was pick up only. I pleaded with the guy to ship it but he just wouldn't budge. :mad:
 
When I was a 18 or so, I had a 424 MKII. I loved that thing. I had a couple of other's before and after but the 424 MKII was the shit. Highly recommended if anyone else is going to four trackville. Hell, I might keep my eye out for one to keep in my bedroom. As a bonus, it's one of the coolest lookin things you can have lying around in a bedroom. Impress those chicks! And don't forget to leave a condensor mic running. :D
 
I hate to be cruel, but we've had everyone's favourite 4-tracks, what about your arch enemy 4-tracks. The ones that break and laugh in your face as you hold your 1 day out-of-warranty receipt? I have to start off with the Tascam - MFP01, my friend bought one and it looked and felt horrable and was broken within a month. No my friend doesn't have fingeres like toes, he took care of it and only used it now and again for new ideas.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
As a bonus, it's one of the coolest lookin things you can have lying around in a bedroom. Impress those chicks! :D
Click to expand...

That's why i want a 246 or 244, the VU's man. :D
 
Did I ever mention I picked up my 388 for two hundred quid? :D
 
I have to agree with our friendly neighborhood Tascam diety, Dave, on the 244 and 246 -- they really are great decks, but the 246 is the best. As follow-ups, the PortaOne and PortaTwo were pretty cool too. I did my very first cassette multi-tracking in 1990 on a PortaOne and I still love the sound of those tunes. With only a DI box, it really brought out the Fender P-bass -- a really cool white '61 that just oozed Brian Wilson -- in a way that no other cassette machine has since. (Don't confuse these decks with the later models that are just like the ubercrummy MFP-01 and bear the same names.)

Worst cassette multitrackers? That's a great thread to start!

Or how about worst cassette multi-track experience? My good friend Ben at Insta-fame spent the better part of an afternoon and evening taking a hundred or so little clicks out of a two and a half minute song. He took them out like headlice, meticulously, one at a time, in Protools. Only afterwards did we figure out where they came from. It seemed that the power supply on the 488 mkIII decided that being intermittent, noisy and making little clicks was what it should do when songs are being dumped into the editing suite for a final mix. Grrrr.

One other note on the 488 -- ever tried to get eight outputs? Ben puzzled it out in about 30 minutes using the monitor sends and effects sends and some magic. He had to put two tracks into one and ended up with only seven outs, but it was heroic nonetheless.
 
Was this like a bet, "oh i bet £200 you wont be able to pick this up " cause they were pretty heavy? Sorry my jokes have been getting worse since joining BBS
 
A little unrelated but - power supplys seem to be the last place to check no matter what. I was gigging and during sound check was wondering why a buzzing sound was coming through the speakers, my lexicon effects unit was making a high freq buzzing sound aswell, which was a big clue cause it's fader was not turned up. Feeling pretty worried i pulled all the cables out of my effects rack - nothing connected, still buzzing. Found out that there was a dimmer switch in use for the lighting in the hall. The dimmer switch must have been arcing minutly causing unstable AC power supply. With the dimmer switch out the buzzing stopped.
 
littlesongs said:
I have to agree with our friendly neighborhood Tascam diety, Dave, on the 244 and 246 -- they really are great decks, but the 246 is the best. As follow-ups, the PortaOne and PortaTwo were pretty cool too. I did my very first cassette multi-tracking in 1990 on a PortaOne and I still love the sound of those tunes. With only a DI box, it really brought out the Fender P-bass -- a really cool white '61 that just oozed Brian Wilson -- in a way that no other cassette machine has since. (Don't confuse these decks with the later models that are just like the ubercrummy MFP-01 and bear the same names.)

Worst cassette multitrackers? That's a great thread to start!

Or how about worst cassette multi-track experience? My good friend Ben at Insta-fame spent the better part of an afternoon and evening taking a hundred or so little clicks out of a two and a half minute song. He took them out like headlice, meticulously, one at a time, in Protools. Only afterwards did we figure out where they came from. It seemed that the power supply on the 488 mkIII decided that being intermittent, noisy and making little clicks was what it should do when songs are being dumped into the editing suite for a final mix. Grrrr.

One other note on the 488 -- ever tried to get eight outputs? Ben puzzled it out in about 30 minutes using the monitor sends and effects sends and some magic. He had to put two tracks into one and ended up with only seven outs, but it was heroic nonetheless.
Click to expand...

I also had a PortOne. It sounded good (not as good as the 424 MKII) but mine developed a problem and Teac were total asses about fixing it. One day I turned it on and the crosstalk between channel 1 and 2 was REALLY bad. Out of the blue thing. I called Teac and the tech told me that I needed a fucking sm57 to fix my problem! Jackass! Apparently my Audio Technica mic had crosstalk. :D

I ended up shipping it (i paid) to them to have it fixed after talking to the tech numerous times. They ended up sending it back months later in the same condition as it left and said nothings wrong with it. That was the worst gear and customer service experience that I've ever been thru. I hate TEAC forever!
 
What is this whole Teac - Tascam thing, were Tascam bought over or are they a subsiduary company?
 
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