Best Speakers/Monitors From A Mixer?

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Gareth Williams

Gareth Williams

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Hi, does anybody have any advice regarding what kind of monitors or speaker are good to use as an alternative to headphones from a mixer? I play guitar, vocals and a drum machine into a mixer at home and listen though headphones. I would like to be able to listen without the headphones too. The main out from the mixer goes to a recording device I was hoping to run the control room out to some monitors or speakers of some sort. As this is for a home set up it doesn’t need to be really loud like for playing in a pub or public place.

I had a look at the Mackie HR624s but couldn’t see some of the specs I need to know. The main things I need to know are … How long is the power lead, e.g. how far from the plug can the speakers be, what input they have. The HR624s only seemed to have RCA and XLR inputs. Though “phone” might be 1/4 inch jack input. 1/4 inch jack would be best as that’s what the mixer output is. Otherwise I’d have to get jack to XLR or jack to RCA cables, and where the volume control is. I couldn’t even see a volume control on the HR624s. Are you expected to control the volume from a computer or something?

I couldn’t find a very high res or clear image of the back so it didn’t make a lot of sense! Anyway, I don’t know where to start really so I thought I’d get some advice from the experts! Thanks for any help. Gareth
 
I have older Yamaha HS80-Ms and they're great.
Newer version is HS8, or there are smaller versions as well.

usa.yamaha.com

HS Series - Overview - Yamaha - United States

Powered nearfield monitor speakers built on the success of its legendary predeccesors that have become a genuine industry standard for their accuracy.
usa.yamaha.com usa.yamaha.com
 
Thanks Dave, actually I've been looking at the HS7s. They are the front runners at the moment. They have jack inputs, volume control apparant, I can't see anything wrong with them at the moment! It's a shame that the volume knob is not on the front like the Adam A3Xs.
 
Gareth Williams said:
Thanks Dave, actually I've been looking at the HS7s. They are the front runners at the moment. They have jack inputs, volume control apparant, I can't see anything wrong with them at the moment! It's a shame that the volume knob is not on the front like the Adam A3Xs.
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Hey you're welcome.
I find that once I'm happy with the overall volume, that the controls/sliders on my mixer are all I need to adjust volume.
 
Gareth Williams said:
Thanks Dave, actually I've been looking at the HS7s. They are the front runners at the moment. They have jack inputs, volume control apparant, I can't see anything wrong with them at the moment! It's a shame that the volume knob is not on the front like the Adam A3Xs.
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The "volume" knob is really used to match the speaker's output to the level of input its getting from your (I assume) audio interface outputs. Somewhere, maybe here, and probably elsewhere on the internet, there's some information on "calibrating your [studio] monitor speakers. Basically you use some pink noise and with a decent mic, measure each speaker's output when its getting the same input, and adjust that control to the same measured dB. You can probably even use your smartphone to get that. IIRC, I set mine so the level control on the interface, at around 11:00, produced something like 87dB with the mic/meter placed about where my head would be in that nominal equilateral triangle we like to use with near-field monitors.

If your audio interface has a balanced output, often just a 1/4" jack, but should say "balanced" in the manual, cable length is irrelevant. Even if it's unbalanced, the [LINE] levels carried probably won't pick up a lot of noise, but using balanced cables is better.

I'm a fan of Yamaha monitors, but some treatment behind them for their rear-port is not a bad idea.
 
Thanks Keith. The level of input the speakers will get will ultimately be controlled by the mixer. I have audio interface outputs (Apogee Duet) going into the mixer, levels can then be effected by the volume/levels settings of the channels they go into. I am planning to use two 1/4 jack leads from the mixer control room outs to the speakers, left and right. What I can’t remember is if the control room/phones out knob is the only thing that effects the level they get or if the main mix out level/volume effects it as well. I have that on -0- anyway, but either way all that effects the level of input the speakers will get.

I would like to be able to experiment with the volume of the speakers so I can find a volume that sounds comfortable to me but doesn’t annoy my neighbour next-door or my mum in the house. Basically, I need to turn the speakers up and down. When my mum is out or in the garden they will go louder! However, I am planning to do this with the control room/phones out knob on the mixer not the speaker. In this case I will leave the speakers volume knobs on the same setting at all times. That's the plan anyway.

If there is anything else I need to know please let me know so I don’t get any horrible surprises! I knew this was going to be a nightmare to set up! Thanks again for your help.
 
I'm not sure *why* you are using the mixer, when the Apogee has 1/4" balanced outputs. I mean, I [kind of] understand some folks using mixers going in, but for straight playback, I'd suspect you have a lot cleaner path direct from the Apogee.
 
What Keith says ^^ above. You can go straight from interface to speakers and control the level from the interface. If the mixer is not being used for other tasks, then you can reduce complications by eliminating it.
 
Gareth Williams said:
Thanks Dave, actually I've been looking at the HS7s. They are the front runners at the moment. They have jack inputs, volume control apparant, I can't see anything wrong with them at the moment! It's a shame that the volume knob is not on the front like the Adam A3Xs.
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This was discussed late last week in another thread. It's fundamental that one understands the input trim/input sensitivity control (front or back) on all of the currently powered studio monitors, is not a volume control. By design that is not its function. It is in fact an input aperture whose sole purpose is to try to match, as close as is possible, the main analog output to the monitor itself. It's an attempt to maintain unity from start to finish in a signal chain. It should never be used to adjust volume. That task should be handled by whatever your master analog output device is, be it your Apogee or your mixer.

As far as the current contemporary lineup of name-brand monitors, they are all good. I'm certain you'd hear a far far greater improvement in sonics by addressing and fixing your room anomalies than the difference between a pair of Mackie's and a pair of Yamaha's.
 
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I went the JBL 308 route. A friend has a pair of older Mackie 824s. Come straight out of the interface into the back of the speaker. With a powered monitor, no extra mixer or stuff is needed.

With monitors, I find the best thing to do is to go listen to various ones, and try to narrow things down to 2 or 3 models. Looking at a spec sheet is meaningless for the most part.
 
keith.rogers said:
I'm not sure *why* you are using the mixer, when the Apogee has 1/4" balanced outputs. I mean, I [kind of] understand some folks using mixers going in, but for straight playback, I'd suspect you have a lot cleaner path direct from the Apogee.
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This is becuase I play with a drum machine, well, it's an MP3 player with some drum beats on! And you only have two inputs into teh Apogee!
 
gecko zzed said:
What Keith says ^^ above. You can go straight from interface to speakers and control the level from the interface. If the mixer is not being used for other tasks, then you can reduce complications by eliminating it.
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Secondly Gecko, it is going into a recording device. To send from the Apogee outs to a recording device (in this case my cassette 4 track, Tascam Porta 2), and to the speakers I would need to get cables that split the signal and send to two places. It's easier to send the Apogee outs into the mixer and send the mixer main outs to the 4 track and the control room outs to the speakers.
 
In summary, I think I will get the Yamaha HS7s and NOT use the volume controls on them. Just use the control room/phones out volume knob on the mixer. We will see what goes wrong and I will post when I have got them and set it up! Thanks again for your help.
 
What is the cassette 4 track for? If that is what you are recording to, what is the apogee for?

The power lead length doesn't matter (it will be a 3' universal power cable, like computers) you can just use an extension cord.

The input doesn't matter, you just need to get the right cable to go from one to the other.
 
Farview said:
What is the cassette 4 track for? If that is what you are recording to, what is the apogee for?

The power lead length doesn't matter (it will be a 3' universal power cable, like computers) you can just use an extension cord.

The input doesn't matter, you just need to get the right cable to go from one to the other.
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Like I said, you can’t record three things into the Apogee. Guitar and vocals go in, that’s it. However, even if you could I would prefer to run into a tape deck anyway because you can listen to your stuff later without turning the computer on again. The computer is only for the music rig. I don’t use it for anything else.

Also, you would have to make a file for every song and open and close each file individually to listen back. It’s way more hassle and like I said you’ve got to turn the computer on again! What I do is record 10 songs once a week on a 45 minute tape to practice the songs, the songs vary, then a few days later I sit and listen to them in the evening while drinking a nice cold beer. :-) In this case with headphones in the 4 track.

The point of the speakers is so I don’t need the headphones when I play it in the first place because they’re a bit annoying.

As for the power leads, if you’re in the US I’m not sure in the UK we have the same extension cords. I’ve never heard of these. If the power lead is too short it will be annoying because either it won’t reach the plug or I will have to investigate extension leads for power cables, which I have never heard of until now, and which I know nothing about. It’s just easier if the cord is a reasonable length. However, it’s nice to know these extension leads exist. That gives me some more options!
 
Hi Gareth, you have not, I think said exactly what the mixer is? I shall therefore guess that like 95% of them it has two output jacks marked MAIN Out and a control for them. Very often a slide fader (nice) but sometimes just a knob. In either case it will be 'calibrated'. This is important later regarding your desire to have two differing listening levels.

Do not concern yourself with any possible degradation of the sound by going through the mixer to the monitors. Yes, the Duet IS the highest quality sound device in the setup but a mixer will make no audible difference to its output. IF you were getting $5000 PMC monitors AND your input sources were impeccable then there might be reason to avoid the mixer but even with the best gear and sources I still doubt anyone could tell. While people are still listening to tape and vinyl it is silly to worry about a couple of OP AMP stages in a mixer!

Pretty sure you have a smart phone?~ Good o, download a sound level meter app. I have one called "Keuwlsoft"You 'calibrate' it by being in a place where you can hear nothing or is very quiet indeed, and set that as 20dB SPL on the C scale. You are now equipped to calibrate the speakers but I can go through that another time or send you a link. For now you need to find two 'marks' on that main out control that give you the two levels you want. Naturally it all depends upon the levels coming in and on the recordings but the usual advice is for DAW meters to AVERAGE around -20dBFS and so that would be the level you want when adjusting the speaker controls which are, as many have said, a set and forget task.

You give no idea of budget for the monitors but a 'cut above' those suggested would be products from Focal, Adam, Genelec and several others.


Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Hi Gareth, you have not, I think said exactly what the mixer is? I shall therefore guess that like 95% of them it has two output jacks marked MAIN Out and a control for them. Very often a slide fader (nice) but sometimes just a knob. In either case it will be 'calibrated'. This is important later regarding your desire to have two differing listening levels.

Do not concern yourself with any possible degradation of the sound by going through the mixer to the monitors. Yes, the Duet IS the highest quality sound device in the setup but a mixer will make no audible difference to its output. IF you were getting $5000 PMC monitors AND your input sources were impeccable then there might be reason to avoid the mixer but even with the best gear and sources I still doubt anyone could tell. While people are still listening to tape and vinyl it is silly to worry about a couple of OP AMP stages in a mixer!

Pretty sure you have a smart phone?~ Good o, download a sound level meter app. I have one called "Keuwlsoft"You 'calibrate' it by being in a place where you can hear nothing or is very quiet indeed, and set that as 20dB SPL on the C scale. You are now equipped to calibrate the speakers but I can go through that another time or send you a link. For now you need to find two 'marks' on that main out control that give you the two levels you want. Naturally it all depends upon the levels coming in and on the recordings but the usual advice is for DAW meters to AVERAGE around -20dBFS and so that would be the level you want when adjusting the speaker controls which are, as many have said, a set and forget task.

You give no idea of budget for the monitors but a 'cut above' those suggested would be products from Focal, Adam, Genelec and several others.


Dave.
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Thanks Dave, the mixer in question is the Behringer Xenyx 802. As you suspected, it doesn’t have feeders just a main out level knob and control room/phones knob.

I don’t have a smart phone or any mobile with an internet connection, but I am absolutely open to getting whatever gadget is required to calibrate the speakers and I have got a level metre. I needed this to check our drum kit wasn’t dangerously loud without ear protection! I don’t know if that would be any use.

When the speakers arrive I will read your post again and post again to ask for the link you mentioned, and find out what I need to do. I did mention Adam but Focal and Genelec are new brands to me. I think the Yamahas will do the job but I’ll check Focal and Genelec out as well. Thanks again.
 
Gareth Williams said:
whatever gadget is required to calibrate the speakers and I have got a level metre. I needed this to check our drum kit wasn’t dangerously loud without ear protection! I don’t know if that would be any use.

When the speakers arrive I will read your post again and post again to ask for the link you mentioned, and find out what I need to do. I
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You sound like you know whats up when setting drums up with microphones. Take a moment to verify the phase too. Don't want to flip one, and end up inverted.
 
If your phase polarity is incorrect, the speaker cone movement will PULL instead of PUSH the drum hit at the listener. or microphone.
 
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