Best budget microphones for live performances ( anything better than Shure SM58?)

  • Thread starter Thread starter A.D.Ryan
  • Start date Start date
Yo A.D. Long time, no hear!

quote from A.D.:

"Well, if everybody agrees that the Beta 58s are better than Shure 58, I`ll go for it. I just didn`t know they were better Thank you very much!"

I don't agree. I think the Beta is more feedback resistant at any given gain point, but to my ears, it doesn't sound significantly better.

First, as far as condensers vs. dynamics for live vocals, the venue and the board are critical. If you are doing live rock at high volumes, stage condensers may not be a good choice, as they can be feedback-makin' machines. If you are doing solo acoustic for less than 100 people, condensers can absolutely rock. It's all about how loud you need to be and what you have to cut through. Sophisticated EQ and notch control in the hands of a great engineer can increase the volume at which condensers remain practical, somewhat.

For the record, I am one of those vocalists that just doesn't sound good though an SM58. It's not that it's a bad mic, it's just a shoe that doesn't fit my foot. For the record, here are my favorite stage vocal mics, in ascending order of price. Note that there are tons of mics I've never gotten to use, like the Beyerdynamic and EV lines.

1. AKG D390B- an old discontinued mic- I bought mine on ebay for $36! It's my backup mic. Trust me on this one. It is better built than most of the current crop of affordable Neodymium magnet mics.

2. Sennheiser e835/AKG D770- These is comparable to an SM58- not better, but different. They are simply shoes that *do* fit my foot.

3. Shure SM7b- a dynamic studio standard, it is almost never considered as a stage mic. It is not handheld, but I'm a solo acoustic/electric singer-songwriter, so what do I care? It's never coming off the mic stand anyway. It rocks on stage just like it does in the studio. Feedback resistant, clear as a bell. I find that I tend to use the midrange presence boost on it for live vocals, which I never do in the studio. This has been my main stage vocal mic for years. If you don't need it to be handheld, look no further. (also probably within your price range, barely, even in Japan)

4. AKG C535- a handheld condenser, I learned about it from David Wilcox, the folk great. More detailed than the dynamics, it's great for more intimate settings where feedback is not a problem. It can bring out all the nuances of a great voice. That's why I usually hand it to somebody who has one, instead of using it myself.

5. Last but not least- Neumann KMS104. No, not 105. These represent Neumann's best attempt at a handheld stage condenser, and are the most expensive stage mics, short of hybrid boutique models used on American Idol, etc. The 105, which everybody loves, is a supercardioid. The 104 is a cardioid, which I find more forgiving, more natural, and a lot easier to use. The 105 has better gain before feedback, but if I am performing where feedback is a major problem, I'd use a dynamic anyway. The 104 does everthing the C535 does- better. It is a great stage mic for a great vocalist. It's like performing in the nude, though. You can almost hear the dandruff falling onto your t-shirt. I've used it, and I do love it, but I find its detail a little intimidating.

In the end, for me, the SM7b represents the best compromise between detail, feedback resistance, and tone. Best of luck to you. May you find the shoe that fits *your* foot.-Richie
 
we use an Audix OM2 and a Sennheiser E835 for our lead vocals. I don't even have an MS58 around anymore. I really like the OM2. I'd definitely add that to your list to consider.
 
+1 Beyer M88

Unless...

You're one of about 20 (per AE great Bob Ohlsson) that have a sibilance issue with it.
(I'm one of the 5%!)

Another valid option IMHO is to consider the Shure SM58 over at www.mercenary.com
where they've upgraded the transformer (to TAB Funkenwerk) on a new 58 for you.

There's a known issue for most vocalists that running the stock 58 through VLZ pre's on a Mackie (let alone a Behringer), sounds rather harsh. Personally a 58 (or 57) through a
Univeral Audio 610 (or 710) series rivals uber $$ condensers on me.
A buddy's Mackie Onyx pre's actually sounded pretty good BTW.

One other idea is to have a "take along" personal mic pre, that complements your 58,
that's roadworthy.
Will make some further suggestions on this if you're curious.

If the midrange response on a 58 is too "thick", have learned the SM48(!) can work very
well, as it doesn't have an impedance matching transformer, like the 58.

Chris
 
My current vocal mic is a Heil PR40.
It's got a condenser-ish sound to it and works great against feedback in a very loud environment (mine is a loud-ass punk band that plays almost exclusively in tiny clubs - prime feedback environment, but I've never once had it feed back on me). It's also a great studio mic - great on just about any loud source.
Just a little bit brighter than the SM7b in my experience, and darn good with intelligibility and cutting through the noise.
Then again, I don't know how much the exchange rate between here and Japan affects the value of my $.02.
:D
 
A.D.Ryan said:
Well, if everybody agrees that the Beta 58s are better than Shure 58, I`ll go for it. I just didn`t know they were better:) Thank you very much!
Click to expand...

Well, I won't agree. They are different. Betas have a much narrower pattern which is beyond some singers' ability to use properly, and they tend toward the strident/harsh end of the tonal range. Some singers are fine on them, but pretty much all singers know how to operate an SM58 because they've all used them before.
 
Jeff_D said:
we use an Audix OM2 and a Sennheiser E835 for our lead vocals. I don't even have an MS58 around anymore. I really like the OM2. I'd definitely add that to your list to consider.
Click to expand...

I was once doing sound in a club that had 2 SM58s and 4 E835s. I ignored the E835s until one day a band came in wanting four vocal mics. It happens to be easier to deal with monitors if the mics all match so I reluctantly set up the Sennheisers expecting them to be a compromise. To my surprise they sounded very nice, actually better than 58s, and became my go-to mics at that club. In my personal kit I have SM58s, but I wouldn't turn down 835s if they were available.

OM2s are okay, but go up the line and there are better options, especially if you need a mic with a tight pattern. I'd use an OM7 for a singing drummer if I had one.
 
What about the MD421 II> It`s about 400 bucks and has amazing reviews!!!
A.D
dintymoore said:
SM58's sound very boomy and have no detail with my voice.

I've been using a Sennheiser MD 441 for a few years and it's the first mic I've ever really liked for live. It's a dynamic but has an extended high end compared to most. It has an "approaching studio sound" on stage quality.

It has a really high degree of intelligibility - you can really hear the words well with that mic.

Plus, it's got a high boost swithch and a 5 way bass roll over switch on it. The latter is good because some songs I need bass proximity boost and others I don't want it.

In the studio the mic has been not good (too hard sounding) and the other common Sennheiser, the MD 421 did not work at all for vocals for me.

They've been selling for $325 - 500 on eBay lately:

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/i.ht...&_nkw=sennheiser+MD+441&LH_Complete=1&guest=1

The only bad part is that's it's kinda heavy, but not that bad really... it looks like a shaver. Sounds great on sax for gigs too. Also, it's output is lower than an SM58 so it needs a bit more input gain on a mixer.

SM81's aren't half bad gig mics either.
Click to expand...
 
Have you tried an MD421II?
^^
A.D
bouldersoundguy said:
I was once doing sound in a club that had 2 SM58s and 4 E835s. I ignored the E835s until one day a band came in wanting four vocal mics. It happens to be easier to deal with monitors if the mics all match so I reluctantly set up the Sennheisers expecting them to be a compromise. To my surprise they sounded very nice, actually better than 58s, and became my go-to mics at that club. In my personal kit I have SM58s, but I wouldn't turn down 835s if they were available.

OM2s are okay, but go up the line and there are better options, especially if you need a mic with a tight pattern. I'd use an OM7 for a singing drummer if I had one.
Click to expand...
 
Ha,ha,ha,ha!!! Nice one!!! Thanks, man!
A.D

Goldilox said:
I bought two AKG D3700s a couple of years ago, having spoken to several more experienced musicians and heard they were dramatically better sounding than the SM58 on the same money, which is true, but the very crisp highs means they are a touch feedback prone. Having sung through a number of other mics in the meantime, if I was re-kitting I'd probably splash the little extra on shure beta 58s.

The thing everyone always says about the SM58 is 'you can hammer nails in with it, they're indestructible'. However, keep in mind that you always have the option to look after your microphones properly. And buy a hammer.
Click to expand...
 
thank you, my friend! Might look for something a bit more expensive. I have the MD421 II in mind:)
A.D
Jeff_D said:
we use an Audix OM2 and a Sennheiser E835 for our lead vocals. I don't even have an MS58 around anymore. I really like the OM2. I'd definitely add that to your list to consider.
Click to expand...
 
Cheers, man!
A.D
bouldersoundguy said:
Well, I won't agree. They are different. Betas have a much narrower pattern which is beyond some singers' ability to use properly, and they tend toward the strident/harsh end of the tonal range. Some singers are fine on them, but pretty much all singers know how to operate an SM58 because they've all used them before.
Click to expand...
 
My friend. I think I made up my mind. And MD421 II. What do you think?
A.D
chessparov said:
+1 Beyer M88

Unless...

You're one of about 20 (per AE great Bob Ohlsson) that have a sibilance issue with it.
(I'm one of the 5%!)

Another valid option IMHO is to consider the Shure SM58 over at www.mercenary.com
where they've upgraded the transformer (to TAB Funkenwerk) on a new 58 for you.

There's a known issue for most vocalists that running the stock 58 through VLZ pre's on a Mackie (let alone a Behringer), sounds rather harsh. Personally a 58 (or 57) through a
Univeral Audio 610 (or 710) series rivals uber $$ condensers on me.
A buddy's Mackie Onyx pre's actually sounded pretty good BTW.

One other idea is to have a "take along" personal mic pre, that complements your 58,
that's roadworthy.
Will make some further suggestions on this if you're curious.

If the midrange response on a 58 is too "thick", have learned the SM48(!) can work very
well, as it doesn't have an impedance matching transformer, like the 58.

Chris
Click to expand...
 
Ha,ha, cheers, man!
Will check it out!
A<D
The Cancers said:
My current vocal mic is a Heil PR40.
It's got a condenser-ish sound to it and works great against feedback in a very loud environment (mine is a loud-ass punk band that plays almost exclusively in tiny clubs - prime feedback environment, but I've never once had it feed back on me). It's also a great studio mic - great on just about any loud source.
Just a little bit brighter than the SM7b in my experience, and darn good with intelligibility and cutting through the noise.
Then again, I don't know how much the exchange rate between here and Japan affects the value of my $.02.
:D
Click to expand...
 
Oh, long time no hear,my friend! As always, you write in detail. Thank you so much.Not sure I want a beta anymore:) I want a Neumann
Or an MD 421II Are you familiar with the latter?
Regards,
A.D

Richard Monroe said:
Yo A.D. Long time, no hear!

quote from A.D.:

"Well, if everybody agrees that the Beta 58s are better than Shure 58, I`ll go for it. I just didn`t know they were better Thank you very much!"

I don't agree. I think the Beta is more feedback resistant at any given gain point, but to my ears, it doesn't sound significantly better.

First, as far as condensers vs. dynamics for live vocals, the venue and the board are critical. If you are doing live rock at high volumes, stage condensers may not be a good choice, as they can be feedback-makin' machines. If you are doing solo acoustic for less than 100 people, condensers can absolutely rock. It's all about how loud you need to be and what you have to cut through. Sophisticated EQ and notch control in the hands of a great engineer can increase the volume at which condensers remain practical, somewhat.

For the record, I am one of those vocalists that just doesn't sound good though an SM58. It's not that it's a bad mic, it's just a shoe that doesn't fit my foot. For the record, here are my favorite stage vocal mics, in ascending order of price. Note that there are tons of mics I've never gotten to use, like the Beyerdynamic and EV lines.

1. AKG D390B- an old discontinued mic- I bought mine on ebay for $36! It's my backup mic. Trust me on this one. It is better built than most of the current crop of affordable Neodymium magnet mics.

2. Sennheiser e835/AKG D770- These is comparable to an SM58- not better, but different. They are simply shoes that *do* fit my foot.

3. Shure SM7b- a dynamic studio standard, it is almost never considered as a stage mic. It is not handheld, but I'm a solo acoustic/electric singer-songwriter, so what do I care? It's never coming off the mic stand anyway. It rocks on stage just like it does in the studio. Feedback resistant, clear as a bell. I find that I tend to use the midrange presence boost on it for live vocals, which I never do in the studio. This has been my main stage vocal mic for years. If you don't need it to be handheld, look no further. (also probably within your price range, barely, even in Japan)

4. AKG C535- a handheld condenser, I learned about it from David Wilcox, the folk great. More detailed than the dynamics, it's great for more intimate settings where feedback is not a problem. It can bring out all the nuances of a great voice. That's why I usually hand it to somebody who has one, instead of using it myself.

5. Last but not least- Neumann KMS104. No, not 105. These represent Neumann's best attempt at a handheld stage condenser, and are the most expensive stage mics, short of hybrid boutique models used on American Idol, etc. The 105, which everybody loves, is a supercardioid. The 104 is a cardioid, which I find more forgiving, more natural, and a lot easier to use. The 105 has better gain before feedback, but if I am performing where feedback is a major problem, I'd use a dynamic anyway. The 104 does everthing the C535 does- better. It is a great stage mic for a great vocalist. It's like performing in the nude, though. You can almost hear the dandruff falling onto your t-shirt. I've used it, and I do love it, but I find its detail a little intimidating.

In the end, for me, the SM7b represents the best compromise between detail, feedback resistance, and tone. Best of luck to you. May you find the shoe that fits *your* foot.-Richie
Click to expand...
 
For me it's good morning A.D
Now I'm not sure if you have made yourself clear on this matter but, are you to leave the microphone in it's stand at all times?
The Senn. MD 421 is a great microphone but again much like the SM7b not that good as a hand held.
Is the material that your band performing much like the solo stuff that you had shown me last year? If so then most any microphone will do when it comes to SIZE of the microphone so your aren't hampered in any way of singing while doing back flips or stage diving.






:cool:
 
A.D.Ryan said:
Have you tried an MD421II?
^^
A.D
Click to expand...

I don't usually use them live because I don't want to expose an expensive mic to damage, and I don't have any in my live kit. But I use them all the time in the studio.
 
dintymoore said:
SM58's sound very boomy and have no detail with my voice.
Click to expand...

Proximity effect. If you're singing right on the grill, which is necessary on loud stages, you need to use the eq and turn down the lows and low-mids to make it sound more natural.
 
"Oh, long time no hear,my friend! As always, you write in detail. Thank you so much.Not sure I want a beta anymore I want a Neumann
Or an MD 421II Are you familiar with the latter?
Regards,
A.D"

Yes, AD, I am familiar with the 421. OK, it beats the hell out of an SM58 (and should, for the price). But...Here's my upside- It is a great dynamic mic which is a longtime standard for guitar cabs, snare, toms, and brass/sax. Some people do use it for live vocals (The Grateful Dead, for example).
My downside- There's a reason why it is not often used for vocals- it's not what it does best. It wasn't designed as a vocal mic. In that price range, for a dynamic, I keep coming back to Shure SM7b, which *was* designed as a vocal mic (primarily for radio broadcast). For amps or sax, it's one of the best dynamics in the business, but only a handful of people use it for vocals.-Richie
 
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