Behringer how bad, really?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Toker41
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I read a lot of speculation about build quality in China. I've opened a lot of Behringer gear, older German ones, early Chinese ones, and later Chinese ones. To me the early Chinese ones look best. They're definetly the best when it comes to modding, which I do a lot these days. The German ones do have better power transformers, but that's about it. The Chinese non-PRO processors are somewhat more solid and easier to service. The part values are printed on the PCB which makes it easier to find a replacement. Most of the Behringers are machine soldered, and I don't think it makes a difference if that machine is located in China or Germany.

The component quality does vary quite a bit. The early MDX2100 have BA4558 opamps, which really aren't too good. I replaced them with NE5532 chips, and it makes a world of difference. The 4580 chips that are used in later MDX2100s are okay. Nothing too fancy but way better than those 4558 chips. Hence the various revisions do sound slightly different. The VCA chips too keep changing. The early composers had DBX chips, the later ones have (better) THAT chips, but that's only because DBX stopped producing chips and THAT corp took over. Inbetween there's a phase of unlabeled VCA chips.

The old MDX2000 looks very different from the MDX2100, by the way, so I don't think Behringer copied a particular unit (Drawmer, DBX, whatever). You can actually see it evolving over the years. The original MDX2000 is a much more elaborate design than the 2100 model and uses quality components througout. I'm not sure it's a better design, though. The 2100 is simpler yet more efficient. It's a good buy if you like modding your stuff. You can't mod any of the PRO units as they are SMD fabricated. So keep ebaying for the old ones!
 
And by the way: I own an older MX8000 back from the days when it was sold without the meterbridge, and it still works fine. None of my other Behringer processors has broken down either.
 
As an individual who owns the MultiCom,AutoCom & Composer
Intelligate,Edison Stereo Enhancer,UltraBass Pro,2-ECM8000 omni-mics and a DX patchbay along with being a prev owner of the Virt DSP 1000 & MX2426 mixer I can give a basic,layman's opinion based on perf and A/B/ & C'ing comparison versus my other gear consisting of dynamic processors RNC,DBX and the dreaded 3630; boards A-Studio 24&32(again, please don't ask me why I own both...i'm an idiot),Mackie 1202,Topaz 24/8 and a Lex MPX500(just 2 name a few) and my HONEST CONCLUSION!!!??
The AutoCom and Composer are the ONLY units that provide adequate performance compared to my RNC or DBX. Mind you, not on pro-level, but decent enuff sig processing suitable for basic needs.
I won't go into Beh's boards as EVERY-1 knows how I feels 'bout them and the efx units are low-level units who's effect parameters
can only be adjusted in .5 increments which hardly provides any true,fine-tuning of 'Verb effect.
The Intelligate comes in handy when requiring cut's of upper/lower freq'y ranges with it's Hi/Lo pass filters, but the unit's gates leave a lot to be desired.
The Edison affords basic stereo spaciousness during mixdown, but this can also be accomplished by proper panning and the Ultra-Bass is strictly useable for DJ's only to add bottom to the beatz(I only bought these unit's 'cause Sammy's was givin' 'em away at 70% off)

Behringer mfrs' plain,ole, cheap gear for those who require basic
processors who are strictly on a budget.
Their Comps are workable,but after that,U get what U paid 4!!
 
If your looking for top end gear, then even my limited experience tells me that Behringer is not the way to go. However, if your just beginning with stuff, and trying to get a feel without spending your life savings on gear (we all know GEAR ain't cheap), then I don't see a better way to go for the most part.

I own more Behringer gear than anything, why, cause I'm starting out. If it wasn't for the affordability of Behringer, well, I'd probably still be playing my Peavey Rage ;).

1000$ Canadian later I've got a decently loud amp, wit 12 inch speaker and effects processor, midi foot controller, an 802 mixer, a coupla ECM800's and one dynamic mic.
I think for the same price I'd be lucky to get an amp and effects processor of the same size and capability (of any other name brand out there), thus there would be no mics, foot controller, or mixer in my collection.

There is no way in hell I expect to achieve professional results with this kindof setup, but I wouldn't be able to get any results without it.

Basically I get to get my hands dirty ;). Thanks B ....
 
Ya know, never fails to crack me up when a person has used ONE product from a company and says "don't use ANYTHING by that company....believe me I used ONE piece so everything they make must be no good". It's like driving a Volkswagon and saying the Porche sucks (same company). I guess what I'm saying is, it's ok to get opinions here but fact is that until you try things for yourself, you're not really going to know if it's good for you. This is a GREAT place to get opinions while researching a product, but not a good place to shop.
 
1) $2500 is the price a les paul SHOULD be. i'm not saying i would pay that much. but i a capitalistic society the price SHOULD be set where the supply and demand curves meet. that maximizes the profits for the business. last time i checked Gibson was not a no-profit organization nor were they in the business of cutting profits so we could all enjoy their product. they are a business and their goal is to MAKE MONEY. and last time i checked the USA was a captolistic society (or pretty close-we get closer to those damn socialists every day).

2) i like SOME behringer stuff. i have a MX2004A . . . it leaves a lot to be desired, but it was under $200. now i can play and learn while i save up for a better one. and in all honesty it's not too bad. even when i get another board i might just link them together and have double the tracking capabilities.
 
willovercome said:
1) $2500 is the price a les paul SHOULD be. i'm not saying i would pay that much. but i a capitalistic society the price SHOULD be set where the supply and demand curves meet. that maximizes the profits for the business. last time i checked Gibson was not a no-profit organization nor were they in the business of cutting profits so we could all enjoy their product. they are a business and their goal is to MAKE MONEY. and last time i checked the USA was a captolistic society (or pretty close-we get closer to those damn socialists every day).
Click to expand...

The government looked into the fact that General Mills Cereals raised thier priced 4 times the rate of inflation and forced them to do something about it, noting that the consumer had been getting RIPPED OFF! The government also looked into the price of a $20 CD and found that, again, the consumer had been getting ripped off forcing the record company giants to pay every consumer that was smart enought to get in on the law suit $3. The price of a Les Paul has gone up at 6 times the rate of inflation. You can not justify it. If a consumer does not know he is being ripped off, does that make it right? Nothing wrong with making a profit, but when I go to a concert and they don't let you take any liquids in, then charge $6 for a bottle of water...well, I"m sorry...I'm being ripped off. However, the Amercian people are like sheep, and would rather be lead in a blind bliss than know the truth and have to fight for it.

Anyway, this is getting to be a tired subject.
Peace.
 
this more an issue of politics than music, but any business should be able to charge whatever price they want for an item. if gibson wants to charge $100,000 for a les paul they should be able to. whether or not someone buys it is their own business. government has no right or responsibility to interfer with prices like that. even though i don't agree, i could see them doing it for staples like corn and flour etc...but are you suggesting the government step in and make gibson charge less for the les paul? what the hell, while their at it why don't we all just give all our money and property (and recording equipment?) to them and they can redistribute it so the whole country is on an equal footing! by the way are you running for president on the communist's ticketl?
 
willovercome said:
this more an issue of politics than music, but any business should be able to charge whatever price they want for an item. if gibson wants to charge $100,000 for a les paul they should be able to. whether or not someone buys it is their own business. government has no right or responsibility to interfer with prices like that. even though i don't agree, i could see them doing it for staples like corn and flour etc...but are you suggesting the government step in and make gibson charge less for the les paul? what the hell, while their at it why don't we all just give all our money and property (and recording equipment?) to them and they can redistribute it so the whole country is on an equal footing! by the way are you running for president on the communist's ticketl?
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Well, Gibson DID make a "Limited Edition Chet ATkins" guitar and it was $40, 000.00. They sold zilch. So, I guess that if it is too much money, there are no buyers. End of problem, no?
 
Nah, I am in no way saying the government should step in ANYWHERE. Infact, they sould step the hell back out of our damn face! However, this is a topic for another time and place. I'm simply saying that sometimes the consumer does not realize they (we) are being screwed. I just really feel that as a consumer (and an American), that everybody has thier damn hand in my pocket and nobody wants to give me what I paid for. I mean, come on, $40 for a damn guitar cable? It's $0.20 worth of parts AND labor. However, what am I as a consumer suppose to do? Not play guitar? Buy a really poorly made one at $20 because the price of the "good" one is so high it allowed the lower one to come up to an equally rediculous price? NO, I have 2 choices...pay the rediculous high price, or not play electric guitar. To ask me not to play is to deny a large part of who I am, and to turn my back to what is a large part of my American culture. Before anyone yells back "make your own cord", I only use the cord as an example. There are many, many examples and the answers are not always that easy. I really feel that musicians (artist) really get an unfare, price gouging, raw deal from every end of the music bussiness. Especially when the fact is that without us (the artist), they would cease to exist. There is a line in the Diseny movie "a Bugs Life" that applies here.....Says one grasshoper to another about the slave ants "...there's alot more of them then there are of us, and if they ever realize that...we are dead"

This rather long (and seemingly unrelated) post does come back to the Behringer question. I love my UB1832fx pro board. It's one of the few pieces of gear that I own (out of many) that I feel was a good product for a good price.
 
i empathize/sympathize with you. i wish stuff was cheaper, or the cost was commiserate with the research and design and production costs. even though i don't like having to pay so much for gear, i'm willing to do it because of my love for music. i think that's the catch. companies know we love music so much that we'll pay for their stuff even if we know we're being ripped. like in so many movies and songs, our love is destroying us - or just making us poorer.
 
Toker41 said:
The government looked into the fact that General Mills Cereals raised thier priced 4 times the rate of inflation and forced them to do something about it, noting that the consumer had been getting RIPPED OFF! The government also looked into the price of a $20 CD and found that, again, the consumer had been getting ripped off forcing the record company giants to pay every consumer that was smart enought to get in on the law suit $3. The price of a Les Paul has gone up at 6 times the rate of inflation. You can not justify it. If a consumer does not know he is being ripped off, does that make it right? Nothing wrong with making a profit, but when I go to a concert and they don't let you take any liquids in, then charge $6 for a bottle of water...well, I"m sorry...I'm being ripped off. However, the Amercian people are like sheep, and would rather be lead in a blind bliss than know the truth and have to fight for it.

Anyway, this is getting to be a tired subject.
Peace.
Click to expand...

The CD deal had nothing to do with the actual costs of manufacturing CDs. They were sued because they wouldn't support retailers who sold below their SRP and that was considered price fixing.

I believe the General Mills thing was more about product labeling but I don't recall.
 
I mean, come on, $40 for a damn guitar cable? It's $0.20 worth of parts AND labor. However, what am I as a consumer suppose to do? Not play guitar? Buy a really poorly made one at $20 because the price of the "good" one is so high it allowed the lower one to come up to an equally rediculous price? NO, I have 2 choices...pay the rediculous high price, or not play electric guitar.
Click to expand...
What about choice #3? Make your own. It costs way less, the cables I've made myself are actually the right length for their purpose (who the hell decided that a guitar cable should be 18'6" or some crap like that?), and the cables I've made also tend to last longer at the solder joints.
 
TexRoadkill said:
The CD deal had nothing to do with the actual costs of manufacturing CDs. They were sued because they wouldn't support retailers who sold below their SRP and that was considered price fixing.

I believe the General Mills thing was more about product labeling but I don't recall.
Click to expand...

Yeah,
You are right about the CD thing, but isn't price fixing still ripping off the consumer? General Mills thing you speak of also happened, but it was two different cases. General Mills was having a bad year....hehe. Anyway, it's kinda like saying "if you don't like the price of gas, then don't put gas in your car." Point was made.
 
Make your own great mixer or guitar and sell it at half the price!
You'll clean up! Right?

That's America. If you can see so clearly how it can be done for less and produce just as good of a product & employ thousands of people & pay a shit load of tax's so others don't have to & keep alot of it built in america.... Then what's holding you back?


If you ask me Mr. Mackie did more for bringing down the cost of quality music gear over the last 15 years than perhaps anyone.
Maybe someone can tell us what it would have cost to buy a mixer the quality of a sr24x4 twenty years ago. I know I bought an 8 channel yamaha 15 years ago and paid $800.00. That's $100.00 per channel and it was half the board. Grant it MF and other large retailers have played a big part in the lowering of prices to.

F.S.
 
You know, there are alot of brands today that make decaf that taste just as good as the real thing.:D
 
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