beginner, please help!! i'm going to lose my mind.

[mustardeer]

So despite having an ok

mic


that I originally bought for my camera and a very ok

Mac


my sound was very "quiet". Just recently learned that I was missing a pre-amp. So I got a

DMP3 by M-audio




which was supposed to do the job. Then I realized i had no way of connecting it to my Mac Pro.

So i ran to the nearest shop in Hollywood that was open and the Guitar Center's rep sold me a

Lightsnake


to go from DMP3 preamp to my MAC via USB.

I also found in my kitchen cabinet an

Emagic emi l 26 USB Audio Interface (i remember using it with my analog studio monitors so i know it works)
info:
http://emusician.com/recording/emusic_emagic_emi/
pics:




Now turns out the lightsnake adds power to the signal so even though the levels on the DMP3 look ok the sound comes out extremely distorted.

When i connect Emagic sound comes out of my monitors but nothing records, it's really strange the timeline disappears after i try to play things back.

Also tried going from DMP3 directly to line in on the back of my MAC and the sound was ok but i have a feeling my mac's sound card could barely handle all that power. I could also just omit the DMP3 and just use the lightsnake but the quality will probably suffer.

I have a feeling the DMP3 and my sennheiser mic should be able to produce beautiful sounding babies, what am i doing wrong?! I've tried pushing all buttons at the same time and one at a time and nothing works. I've tried taking the battery out of the mic. I've tried it all. The software I'm using is Soundtrack Pro and yes i'm selecting the appropriate input in Soundtrack pro. Please, help!

 

[Richard Monroe]

The DMP3 is a mic preamp, not a USB interface. It produces a 1/4" +4 line out. In order to get from a mic to a computer, somewhere the signal must be converted from analog to a digital signal. The soundcard in virtually all computers was not designed for critical recording. It was made to make pops and beeps for games, and to convert online digital sources to an analog signal to feed computer speakers. You have basically 3 options, and only 2 of them are practical:

1: Replace the soundcard in the computer with a soundcard that is specialized for recording.
Then you can feed it with the DMP3. Example:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=7587&Category=Audio_Interfaces

2: Sell the DMP3 and replace it with a USB interface with preamps built in. Example:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40819&Category=Audio_Interfaces

3: Get a standalone A-D convertor to convert the DMP-3's analog signal to something the computer can understand. This is not currently realistic without a killer budget. M-Audio used to make an affordable unit called "Flying Cow". However- most standalone units put the digital signal out by AES/EBU, S/PDIF, or ADAT, which still requires a specialized soundcard. The cheapest unit out there is Behringer ADA8000, but the output is ADAT only. Good convertors will give you sticker shock in no time at all. Examples:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=AD+convertors&go=Go!

The only unit there that is affordable is the Aphex, which is also an ADAT-out unit.

So- if you want to get from analog to USB, you need options 1 or 2. Also note that USB 2.0 is a virtual necessity. USB 1.0 usually chokes on high-resolution audio data. Your Mac should be no problem. Good luck-Richie

 

[darrin_h2000]

Easy...get rid of the lightsnake...use the interface to get your music into the computer and hook the preamp to the interface.

 

[braden_]

yeah that lightsnake cable was the first thing i bought attempting to record. i got rid of it fairly quickly.

 

[Shadow_7]

You have 3 basic parts. Mic + Preamp + Converter

Lightsnake == Preamp + Converter
(and it looks like you got the wrong one (guitar))

DMP3 == Preamp
(you still need to connect it to the other two in some way)
(also DO NOT use the meters to judge it's output)

Mic == Mic + Preamp
(since it has a battery, it's probably already outputing at line level)

Interface == Converter
(and sometimes a preamp too)
(But you lack any noticeable connectors to bridge the gap)

Mac == Converter
(and possible preamp too, depending on mic input (pink/red) or line level input)

Each element (Mic+Preamp+Converter) contributes to the overall quality. I think you could get better results by supplimenting your gear. Although I doubt you'll get stellar results with that mic, if it is what I think it is anyway. < $50 electret. Which typically have a high noise floor relative to pro-ish gear. But you can get rid of some of the noise floor of the internal soundcard of your mac, by using an interface.

A lot of camcorder mics are designed to put some distance and physical separation from the camcorder, not really to be a better mic. But external, you can get away from the the motors (tape / shutter / zoom / focus / ???) of the camcorder. And otherwise isolate it from those noises, and/or shock mount it from the vibrations of those moving parts.

 

[mustardeer]

that's bad news. I thought Emagic was designed specifically to convert analog to digital.

Will the fast track pro produce as good of a quality as the dmp3 or will the quality suffer? If so what would be the next step up from the fast track? I've heard that "fast track" and "fast track pro" produce identical sound quality just different features?

 

[Shadow_7]

That's what a converter does. It converts analog (mic) to digital (file on your computer). And vice versa. The preamp is just there to boost the mic signal so it's strong enough / loud enough to record.

You emagic has INPUTs, but they're only RCA. Does your mic have RCA output(s)? If not, IF you adapter it to RCA, it should work (in theory). You don't have to use both channels for it to work.

 

[mustardeer]

just looked it up and my emagic is usb 1.0. I'm gonna dump it for firewire. Thinking M-Audio Firewire Solo.

then it'll be mic or electric guitar -> dmp3 preamp -> firewire solo -> mac

is that right?

 

[mustardeer]

sorry for the bump.
i've been doing research for the past 7 hours.

basically i don't want to sell the dmp3. It is so sexy and has great reviews.
What i need is a way to connect the dmp3 to my mac for under $300 (street price). So the audio interface shouldn't have a built in preamp so i can take advantage of the dmp3 and should be able to take balanced cables. What product am i looking for? I only need 1 or 2 channels.

If nobody has a solution i'll pick up a PreSonus FireBox at guitar center and post the dmp3 on craigslist.

 

[Shadow_7]

You can use the DMP3 with what you already have. It outputs Balanced (TRS / 3 wires) mono line level signals x2. You could get some RCA(unbalaced / 2 wires) to 1/4" adapters on the end of a 3.5mm stereo jack to 2x RCA and it should work. Ideal, definitely not, but in theory functional. You could also take that output TRS to TRS (aka balanced) to a headphone preamp, and take one of the headphone outs to line in on whatever converters(and probably cables) that you already have.

I have a presonus HP4 (headphone preamp) for that myself. Bear in mind line level, so probably 1/10th the output (maximum) on the volume knob of the headphone out. Various ways to "rig" it with stuff you probably already have. Without too much loss in quality. But as previously said, that mic already has a line output in all probability. About all that that other stuff gets you is the option to use other mics without adapter hell and other rigging. Which will likely improve quality, if only by simplifying the troubleshooting / reliability / interference issues.

BTW, most USB audio devices are/were USB 1.1-ish. Or at least were when I was shopping around about two years ago. Good enough for CD quality input and simultaneous output. But not much beyond that. And not as beefy as many of the other options.

For $400 you could get a Samson Zoom H4 (H4n?). Which should take care of most of those issues. Or a Zoom H2 ($200) for a less featurefull alternative. They also double as soundcards iirc. Unless you need 8-24 inputs for some reason (recording drums / choirs / ???). I've thought about an Echo Layla 3G myself ($500). But I rarely need more than 2 channels and most of my clients barely have CD players.

 

[Big Kenny]

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MDOFTRACKPRO

 

[Richard Monroe]

The Fast Track could work, but it wouldn't make sense to use the DMP-3 with it. The Fire Wire Solo actually has balanced line ins, rather than a mic/instrument jack, so it should work rather well with the DMP-3. I think it's not a bad choice.-Richie

 

[mustardeer]

actually Richie the solo has unbalanced ins and balanced outs, just looked it up. That wouldn't work right?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, you are partly right. The 1/4" ins are unbalanced (old eyes-oops) But- that will work just fine. With runs of cable less than 20', there will be no increase in noise, and a loss of about 6db of gain, which in the greater scheme of things, is pretty much irrelevent. The only case I can think of where it might matter would be if you were recording a soft source with a mic with really low output, such as a Shure SM7b. Contrary to popular misconception. unbalancing your signal is not that big a deal. I use an RNC compressor every day with an Avalon AD2022. The RNC unbalances the Avalon's signal, and the world hasn't ended yet.-Richie

 

[mustardeer]

Crap, i ran back to the Guitar Center, so they shoved this Kontrol 1 in my face and claimed it was "rad", it was on sale so i picked it up at $250.

Installed the drivers, pluged it in by itself and it put out a really "cheap" sound. Tried it with my DMP3 preamp and - no sound. Tried with and without 48V button.

Man this sucks. Especially since the Kontrol 1 is not refundable.
So I got the Mic hooked up to the preamp via XLR then guitar cable from preamps balanced out into Kontrol 1's balanced line in. Kontrol 1 is hooked up to my mac via usb 2.0. It sounds somewhat ok when the gain is down but then i'm not getting enough volume. If i bring the gain up it distorts the signal.

What do I do now?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Sounds like you might just have something hooked up wrong...If we had some kind of thing to look at to see what kind of connections it has on it.

 

[mustardeer]

when a man with 4000 posts under his belt asks for pictures you give him pictures:

 

[Shadow_7]

You shouldn't need phantom power for anything you're using right now. As long as you have the battery in that mic. I didn't know that that mic had an XLR connector. I thought it was some radio shack special (like mine). In fact using phantom power on some mics that don't need it can damage those mics. So turn off v48 phantom power and put the battery back in the mic. And hopefully things will work for you.

You should know that the DMP3 puts out a lot of gain. I don't think I ever moved the knobs on mine past all the way to the left. And that's without the +33dB gain button engaged. But then again I don't sing or rap.

Also bear in mind that despite the knobs on the interface itself, there's software mixer levels associated with these interfaces. So make sure those are appropriately set and otherwise NOT muted. You should probably keep those software levels at about 90% and use the knobs for everything else. I always find that that last 10% or so on the extremes tends to sacrifice some quality. Which holds true for most devices, especially budget ones.

About all I know about the Kontrol 1 is that the linux alsa drivers has special code for it. Which is both good and bad. There's likely a functional driver for it, but it's not standards compliant, or else it wouldn't have it's own set of code. From back in the day when I was trying to find some sort of list of known usb audio devices that actually work in linux by disecting the code. Before I knew about usb_audio as the driver for standards compliant devices. The driver that all usb (USB 1.1) audio devices use, except those with their own standards. Fortunately I got lucky with an M-Audio Mobile Pre, which IS standards compliant and fully functional in linux. No trickery, no grabbing the latest drivers, it just works, as it should.

 

[darrin_h2000]

You may be overdriving the preamp in the interface with the DMP3...Id sell the DMP3 and get a mic...you should be able to turn it into an SM57.

 

[mustardeer]

Shadow,

Just tried the settings you suggested (battery on, phan power off on both the preamp and the kontrol) and still when I try to record on Soundtrack Pro all i get is a horizontal line on the timeline (no sound) even though the meters on the DMP3 move when I sing.