Baywiew's Cascade Mics

Re: Re: Thanks for the update!!

adam said:
Yeah, as I mentioned, I have limited experience with different mics. I find on the vocals the m-20 to be maybe a bit narrow and somewhat dark, if that makes sense. While there is more "air" as I said before, it has a somewhat proximity sound.

Can you describe some of the differences between the c1 and m-20? I am interested particularly bc I have limited mic experience. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Adam, it appears we're in much the same boat as far as experience with these kinds of mic goes.... doh! ;)

when I did side-to-side comps between the m-20 and C1 using the same VTB-1 preamp, I found that the C1 gave a much more realistic sound accross the board than the M-20. The M-20 sounded like some of the mids were scooped out, while the C1 sounded fuller, with more mids. While the scooped mids sound good (to me) on acoustic guitars, it made the vocals sound thinner and less powerful to my ear (narrow and dark in your words). The C1 reportedly has better high-end range than the M-20 and has been described by some as a "bright" microphone, but I have also found it to have a warmer overall sound than the M-20.

Remember, these are just my impressions and interpretations, I'm sure others who have more experience and a better ear than I must have some opinions about this.

If you want to hear examples of how the C1 sounds in action, check out my tune "War13" for vocals and check out "Charity" for acoustic guitar at this site:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/mrmoonmusic.htm

Geeezzzzz.... I almost forgot that "War13" has some ambient guitar micing with the M-20.... The other guitar mic was an SM57.

-Mr. Moon
 
As Alan posted last year, it's the same off-the-shelf Fielo mic sold by everybody and their dog (SE, ADK, Cascade, Audix, Nady, Carvin, etc...). Even though Marshall manufactures their own mics over in China, their MXL 2001 appears to be an exact copy.

The electronic design uses a FET (Field Effect Transistor) AND a transformer, along with cheap components (caps, resistors, etc..) and doesn't sound nearly as good (at least to me, anyways) as some of the FET-only designs like RODE or Studio Projects uses. Not to knock the transformer-coupled design, but there's good (expensive) and bad (cheap) ways to do it and this mic is of the bad...

I rip the guts out of my M20 and re-built it via the “Scott Dorsey” mod which is a total FET design. Sounds MUCH better, IMHO.

My $0.02
 
One more thing… after performing the modification, I went back and compared the old with the new. The vocals sounded way better – more open and life like. Acoustic guitar, on the other hand, sounded harsh in the high end (I HATE that sound). The old version, even though not as “open”, was less harsh and just more pleasant to listen to.

Again, my $0.02
 
Flatpicker,

I went looking for details of that Dorsey mod and couldn't find the thing.............any suggestions?

Also, I am trying to find a half-decent tube mod for single diaphram capsule like these mics...............everything I have found so far relates to dual diaphragms...............again, any ideas?

:cool:
 
Here’s the only info about the Scott Dorsey mod I’ve found on the web. Supposedly to get the whole story, you need to back order the Recording magazine issue it’s in. If you decide to do it, PM me and I’ll tell you about mistakes I made and save you some time…

http://www.pfarrell.com/music/shanghaimic.html

Tape Op did an article by Dave Royer on the tube mics that is re-hashed here:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/tapeop/tube_mic_25_1.shtml

…and here’s a link to Dave’s “other” web site where you can buy the kits:
http://www.mojaveaudio.com/products.html

I wonder if the tube mic would be worth it. After spending ~$400-$500 and all that work, you basically have a tube mic with a Chinese capsule like the MXL V69. It might be cheaper to buy an V69 and modify the innards.
 
So much depends on the capsule quality which is almost an unknown quantity until you actually do the mods and find out if it was worth the trouble.......................kinda Catch 22 :D .

I had seen those links you posted, but I thought there may have been a chance that you had sourced other information. I know it is possible to adapt the circuits for a dual diaphram to suit the single diaphram style, but I really need to find a "tech-head" that knows what they are talking about.

Anyways, thanks for your help, but I think it will be kept as a project for the distant future:)

:cool:
 
ausrock said:
...I know it is possible to adapt the circuits for a dual diaphram to suit the single diaphram style, but I really need to find a "tech-head" that knows what they are talking about...
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These are both "single diaphragm" circuits.:)
 
A question....

The ADK A-51 is listed as being one of the "cookie-cutter" mics.

But from a sound quality standpoint, it is a completely different beast than ANY of the Nady, Behringer, or Marshall mics that I've had a chance to listen to.

Larry at ADK states that they (being ADK) speced the mic out stateside and had the Chinese build it (much like Alan and SP), but without changing the body to make it distinctive.

Is it possible (or PROBABLE, for that matter) that other mic companies have done the same?

While I don't doubt that there are several companies whose research only went as far as "You make them in silver AND black? Gimme 10,000 of the black ones with this logo on them...", I also wonder if we're not pitching the baby out with the bath water.

NONE of these mics will ever make us forget Neumann. But to lump them ALL in as "Return of the Clones" might be painting with a brush that's just SLIGHTLY too wide.

I'd be interested to see more pix of the insides of some of these...I'm planning on taking my A-51's apart, just to see if they look identical to anything else. If so, Larry's hype is just that. If not, I'll try to post pix, and let you know what changes I found.
 
Hey H2O,

Connelly, O'Brien, Jobe,.......???:D

My interest, at least, in seeing the internals of these Chinese mics, is not to prove they are all the same, so much as to see if we can "group" them by their pcb design and also see which mics show substantial enough differences to be regarded as "non clones". Personally, I don't think changing a couple of resistors or caps while leaving the bulk of the circuit design untouched is really much to get excited about.

Obviously pics of pcb's won't tell the whole story, but it is a start.





:cool:
 
Re: A question....

H2oskiphil said:
The ADK A-51 is listed as being one of the "cookie-cutter" mics...
Click to expand...
I was surprised at this too, but Scott Dorsey’s article lumps it in with the rest of them. Of course the capsule and transformer may be of a higher quality, but I seriously doubt it. Post those pics if you can. I believe it’s only fair for us to know what we’re buying!:D
 
Flatpicker -- thanks for the information. I know what the mics are and where they came from. I understand that they are what they are.

My thought process in bringing this post forward was: bayview still sells these mics --> People may acquire them as they buy from bayview, and may be curious to buy one outright --> I have 2 of them --> I made a recording that I thought showed some potential for acoustic guitar --> People who might be buying from bayview might be interested.


Anyhow. Interesting points regarding sourcing from China. It would be interesting to know which brands are essentially identical and which are different.
 
ausrock said:
Hey H2O,

Connelly, O'Brien, Jobe,.......???:D

Click to expand...

Goode...but I've owned O'Brien and Connelly... :-)

I opened my A-51 today, and damned if it didn't look JUST like whatever mic Scott Dorsey used for his mod. A couple of minor differences, but the boards were laid out almost identically.

Odd...there may be some differences in resistor values, but it doesn't look like there's any significant difference in layout. Maybe I got fed a line...
 
Hmmmmmm........interesting.

If you have a digital cam, can you post pics of the PCB's..........or as an alternative, lay the mic on a scanner and scan the PCB area. The colour may not be brilliant, but it should show enough detail.


At 52 yrs old, I have just about retired my H2O skiing gear..........not quite, but almost:D

:cool:
 
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