BASIC QUESTION about CLASP system

[songer]

Hi everybody,I am a musician who wants to approach analog recording for his band's next album, and I am definitely not an expert on the the field.
Our studio 's got a Clasp system, which they say is able to couple the warmth of the tape to a consistent save of money (only one tape needed) and time.
I've run several forums about Clasp (one even in this community) but none could clarify my doubt. The question is the following: is the recording with clasp using e.g a 2" tape + protools same as recording on the tape and then transfer on protools? If not, how relevant is the quality loss? If yes, how is this possible since you do not polarize the Fe oxide?
Many thanks to anyone who can help Corrado

 

[miroslav]

is the recording with clasp using e.g a 2" tape + protools same as recording on the tape and then transfer on protools? If not, how relevant is the quality loss? If yes, how is this possible since you do not polarize the Fe oxide?

Yes/no.

The difference between CLASP and recording/transferring is that with the CLASP system, you are actually recording to the DAW while going out to the tape deck and right back into the DAW in real-time. So...the tape becomes just another processor, an effect.
The CLASP system keeps the DAW and the tape process all synchronized in real-time.

This saves some tape & time, because it only drops the audio to tape when recording, and you don't need to rewind back to the begining...you just keep recording as needed. The DAW simply uses the tape for the moment, and takes the output off the deck's PB head....and again, the CLASP system keeps it all in sync with the rest of the DAW tracks.
There are NO formal individual "tracks" on the tape deck in the same way as if you had first recorded to the tape deck and then transfered.
Also...since there are no formal tracks, the CLASP system will use every free bit of tape to drop audio onto as needed during the process. You don't rewind until you get to the end of the reel...and then you would just start from the beginning if you needed to keep recording....most likely erasing what you recorded previously.

The key point is to understand that you are recording tracks to the DAW...not the tape deck. The tape is just used "for the mooment"....audio is recorded and immediately output off the PB head back to the DAW. So yes, you DO magnetize the oxide on the tape same is in regular track recording to tape. The audio quality would be the same AFA the tape deck portion...and maybe even better because you are immediately tracnsfering to the DAW, so the parts that are recorded to tape are not subjected to many RW/FW/PB passes...and there's no time for any of the tape magnetizim to wear off, though some might say that is what makes some of the tape flavor....letting it "gel" on the tape a bit.

There are ways to create a CLASP-like setup without using the CLASP system, though you don't have the ability to manipulate audio/time with as much detail and ease as the CLASP system gives...but the end result is the same....you record to a DAW while "bouncing" audio from the DAW in real-time to a tape deck and then right back into the DAW.
The CLASP system just makes it rather easy and without muss-n-fuss....but you pay a high cost for the system.

 

[Chilljam]

Yeah, when you think about it... the CLASP system is good for those that have an established digital setup and only wish to 'add-on' the option of recording through the tape machine. For those whose studio is based around analog tape, a synchronizer and an interface into Pro Tools would get the same results and be much cheaper.

I've done a similar thing (only using a 1/2 track reel to reel instead of a 8 or 16 track) and no synchronizers and still manage to have everything sync up perfectly (note the tracks WILL NOT drift like it does when you playback any recordings on tape as you are directly monitoring off the PB head). All you have to do is record through the tape deck, monitor off the PB head into the DAW then compensate for the delay between REC and PLAYBACK heads by shifting back the track by however many milliseconds it is.

 

[songer]

...and then you would just start from the beginning if you needed to keep recording....most likely erasing what you recorded previously.
The audio quality would be the same AFA the tape deck portion...and maybe even better because you are immediately tracnsfering to the DAW, so the parts that are recorded to tape are not subjected to many RW/FW/PB passes...and there's no time for any of the tape magnetizim to wear off, though some might say that is what makes some of the tape flavor....letting it "gel" on the tape a bit.

Thank you so much miroslav, this is so clarifying. I thought that because of the high data density of a tape (2" in particular) it would have taken DAW too powerful to digitalize such data in realtime or too large memory storages.
So this means that it'll be like recording on an already "n-times used" tape for every n-rewinds I do. Is this advisable?
Moreover, as per your experience, do you think it's possible to get the same warmth of a tape transferred to a DAW or it is mainly due to magnetization wearing off and "gelling"?
I need a reason to justify the use of clasp before my guitarist decides to purchase 1500$ of reels...

 

[songer]

For those whose studio is based around analog tape, a synchronizer and an interface into Pro Tools would get the same results and be much cheaper.

thanks Chilljam. However our choice is between buying just one tape and using the CLASP (which is already part of the studio) or spend at least 900$ more (fou reels) and go with tapes only and then transfer to PT (I exclude the studio will do tape editing).

 

[miroslav]

Well...even with the CLASP, you eventually will wear out the tape, so it's not a forever thing.

That said, I use *used* tape quite often, and I've also used virgin tape for a single recording, and yeah, there's a slight difference, but nothing that bothered me.
It's like putting on a fresh set of guitar string VS ones that have been played for awhile. Some guys put on fresh strings almost every day...IMO...idiotic and expensive, but it's their money.
I actually prefer strings that have some play on them, and after they "settle in" a bit. I think they become more stable in their feel and sound, but some guys like that fresh tone and feel, though it doesn't last very long...which is why it's idiotic and expensive to change them daily. (There are guys whose body sweat will corrode strings very quickly, but that's another issue.)
So...with fresh tape, the highs seem a bit more brighter and cripser...but most quality tape will only keep that property for a short time, and then like the guitar strings, it will settle into a more stable, unchanging state and stay that way for quite a lot of plays.

I would not choose or avoid the CLASP purely on how much tape costs (it's more about the cost of CLASP, but you already have that at the studio).
It's about the process, the mentality, the preference, the vibe....etc.
Tracking to and FW/RW tape takes more time....some people like that, some don't.
Also, it's simpler to track/monitor off of a tape deck/mixer than a DAW and plugs and all that...but if the overall system is a DAW, and there's no other analog gear being used, but you just want some tape flavor...then track to the DAW with the CLASP since you have it.

The only other thing to maybe consider is the future.
Do you want/need to have those tape tracks for some reason down the road....maybe to remix in the analog domain...etc?
With the CLASP...you got NO "tape tracks"...you just have tape FX.
If you track to tape....you have all the tracks on the reels as they were recorded. They can still be transfered to DAW...or mixed right off the reels...etc.

I've worked both ways.
I like my reels....but I also like editing with a DAW. It's a more focused/prepared process tracking to tape....especially if you plan to mix off the tape (not too much you can do to fix/edit stuff on tape)...but it's a more "organic" process, and there's a lot to be said for letting the tracks fall and just going with that.
I don't have a problem also with dumping to a DAW...for a solo musician, it's an ease of used thing.
If you have a full band, well rehearsed ...you can get magic sometimes tracking to a tape deck....it's just all go-go-go....there's not screwing around with a DAW and a bunch of digital conversion. You just hit REC and the audio hits the tape.

 

[songer]

Thank you so much, Miroslav, I got the point. Your replies have been fully exhaustive and quite instructive for an analog rookie like me.
The idea of a future analog mix attracts us, though we know it to be quite expensive. Guess we'll probably opt for a tape recording and get the reels. As you said, it is a matter of approach, more serious and aware. It's like not having a parachute. One shot (or two...) .
Well, if the recording session fails anyway and we start over writing more than twice, we'll trash the reels and surrender to the CLASP

Thank you!!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Funny how the "basic question" always requires a very complex answer.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

....a very complex answer.

or you can say:
"Tape recording isn't FX and no such thing as "tape process" ",

...and close the case.

 

[miroslav]

or you can say:
"Tape recording isn't FX and no such thing as "tape process" ",

...and close the case.

You could say that...but it doesn't explain the CLASP system.

With the CLASP system, it's pretty much treating the tape recording as a "process/FX"...not much different than bouncing a DAW track out to an analog comp or EQ and bringing it right back into the DAW.

 

[Dr ZEE]

...

With the CLASP system, it's pretty much treating the tape recording as a "process/FX"...not much different than bouncing a DAW track out to an analog comp or EQ and bringing it right back into the DAW.

Precisely!!!!!

So, when an "engineer" needs "such FX" he is comp-ing or EQ-ing.
Unless an engineer does not know how to comp or EQ or believes in a "magic ghost" in the machine or maybe even in the reel ...

*******BUT!!!!!!!! then again, there is such thing as PRO-world and there is such thing as Business where engineer's beliefs are irrelevant.
Customers want to sound like "idols of the past" and you have to give them that "hope" or they'll go to a different place.
If you say: "I can comp and EQ"' - They'll say: "We can do that too"
But !!! if you are armed with CLASP (that magic "time machine".... heh heh heh), then you are in business.
So CLASP may be a very good investment. Just do your $$$$$$$-math

 

[miroslav]

So CLASP may be a very good investment. Just do your $$$$$$$-math

Yeah, for the 24/7 commercial studios, maybe that's one angle.

Like I said earlier....you can already do a CLASP-like thing with a deck and DAW, so for the home/project studio, the CLASP system would be a waste of $$$.

One other thing that the CLASP system does beyond bringing in business, is that it allowed many current/new engineers and end-users to take those tape decks that were gathering dust in the corner of the studio and bring them back into the production process, while still using a 100% DAW production SOP.

IOW...the new/young guys are able to add the tape decks back into the equation without doing standard tape recording....thet're just working ITB as far as they are concerned....and that why to them the tap deck is just another external FX/process, and nothing more.
So...if they feel they need some "tape magic"....the CLASP system gives it to them with minimal analog/tape deck interaction. They don;t even need to think about the tape deck other than to RW the reel when it gets to the end.
Hopefully....someone at the studio still knows how to align and maintain the decks....but that's another issue.

 

[leddy]

The difference between CLASP and recording/transferring is that with the CLASP system, you are actually recording to the DAW while going out to the tape deck and right back into the DAW in real-time.

Point of clarification-

Does the Clasp record to the DAW, then to tape, then to DAW again?

I always thought it hits tape, then DAW. Not the extra AD/DA that you describe.

 

[miroslav]

I meant it figuratively that the DAW is your recording device.
There's no concern about specific tape tracks and all that stuff....intead you just focus on your DAW tracks, and the tape deck is only used to send audio to/from...
...but yes, audio hits the tape first then the DAW, so it's just A/D.