Banjo & Fiddle

[PhilGood]

I've got a country recording gig coming up.

Just wondering (yeah, I've used the search function) what anyone's personal favorite mics and placement are for recording banjo and fiddle.

Any particular techniques you favor or can recommend?

Thenkyew!

Phil

 

[tmix]

Phil,
I record both quite regularly with mando and alto sax as well.
They are some of the shrillest instruments known to mankind with the exception of a bagpipe.

Think of the warmest / darkest mic you have.
I don't know what your mic locker is like.
I use a pair of Kel HM-1s on violin. One above (about a foot) and slightly forward of the joint where the neck meets the body to keep it out of the bow's way. I often put a second below the violin in a mirror image with the mic pointing towards the mid back.
It helps me get a nice body sound that is full without the nasal screetch. I then have a choice on sound at mix time. Sometimes when it a verse and the fiddle is just soft peddling I'll choose the body sound only, then bring in the top during solos.... well... you get the idea.

As far as banjo, I personally mic it the same as a guitar. One mic up between body and about where the hand is on neck, and a second up about shoulde height facing toward the area behind the right hand.
My favorite banjo mics are CAD E-100s. Clear but not strident.
You could probably get by with a dynamic at the body position and a small diaphram condensor at the neck for hammer-ons.

My ideas anyway!

Tom

 

[jimmy2sticks]

i have used ksm141s, ksm137s and ksm109s on violins, mandolins, banjos and cellos. I like the sound of the 109s the best since the 109 has the least defined sound out of the three. My reasoning on that is like Tom says, these are shrill insturments and having less definition is actually helpful in the mixing process.

As always - I have to put the disclaimer that I work at Shure.

 

[tmix]

Jimmy!
Hook me up with some mics , ol" budy ol"fren! (he he he he he)

Tom

 

[PhilGood]

So a ribbon mic might be a good choice? I also have an Oktava 319 that's pretty dark (very controlled on the high end) and an SM94. I also have an Oktava MKL-2500.

 

[mrface2112]

So a ribbon mic might be a good choice?

probably about the best choice for fiddle, imo. these are two instruments where the modern cheap chinese condenser with stridently hyped high end frequency bumps *really* work against you.

i totally agree with the folks above--depending on the quailty/timbre of the instruments in question and the technique of the player, these will probably be about the most harsh/shrill instruments you'll ever record. and the less adept the player (and to an extent, lesser quality of the instrument), the more shrill/harsh it'll be. i've heard some great fiddle players with remarkably smooth tone and technique, so a lot (most?) of it lays in their hands.

one of the most important things when recording fiddle is to get the mic up above the instrument and backed off a bit (couple feet or so)--this is where an omni comes in handy. unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your room) this also means that you're gonna be capturing a good bit of the room. the other thing to keep in mind is that fiddle players usually bounce around a bit when playing, so an omni a few feet above helps mitigate that. and much like drums, walk around the room and find a spot where the fiddle sounds really good and stick a mic right there. this could be your secret weapon.

if the fiddle player has a live rig (attached mini-condenser, under-saddle pickup, etc), take a track of that too. it might actually sound better than what you can get with a mic in the room, might fit in with the sound of the band better, etc.

banjos are usually pretty freaking loud. i'd put a single mic (or a coincident pair) a couple feet in front and adjust the position until you're getting what you want to hear. in short, just mic it a lot like you would a very powerful acoustic guitar (HD28V, D45, etc).

in terms of mixing, you just want to get them to fit in with the rest of the band, so make sure everything lives in the same acoustic space. and a lot of times "fitting in" requires judicious use of eq and compression. also never underestimate the power of using delay and/or a touch of chorus on the fiddle--that can really fatten it up, and a subtle amount of a nice dark reverb can really help out with the strident highs on both.

cheers,
wade

 

[up-fiddler]

I use a Studio Projects T3 on the fiddle and my cheap (Avantone) ribbon. Both mics are right next to each other and about 3 feet out and above the fiddle. I then use the best sounding track or even a blend of the two. It depends on the fiddler. I think the most important thing for fiddle or violin music is the room. I move everything upstairs into a room that is a bit livlier when I track the fiddle. The second is placement of the mics. I put mine where I do because I have worked with them and the room and know that's where they sound best for fiddlers.

I'm ashamed to say that I have always, and still do, used a SM57 on the banjo. Slightly off axis, 12th fret, 12 inches out, and through an old dbx mic pre. I cut the highs just a tiny bit (11:00 as opposed to 12:00) on the way in to darken things up a tad. You have to be careful that you don't lose the high ringing 5th string that makes it sound like a banjo though. I use the same setup for tenor banjo but record the highs flat.

Good luck. It sounds like great fun.