Bands are a pain in the...

[mr.rich]

do you really believe that any engineer would purposfully make a shitty sounding record due to the fact they didnt like the guitar tone a guy was shooting for. mabye that guitar tone was a peice of crap and the engineer was doing his job and letting the player know it sounded like crap. maybe when the band said no we want it to sound that way and the engineer said fine, its your record and then when it sounded like ass when it was done they merely chose to blame the engineer for the crappy sound. i dont know how many records ive done where some player had a god awful tone but as they were paying the bill i had to let it ride, only to have multiple reviews/comments made about a part i tried to fix in the first place. theres a HUGE difference between not respecting a band and having to tell them that their out of tune, time, weak section, effects that dont fit, parts that seem off or whatever. thats what most bands look for in an experienced engineer. input and knowledge of how things should work together from a musical standpoint. i know that i would be more pissed if an engineer didnt have the balls to say somthing was out of whack and on mix down i noticed it myself. i feel an engineers task extends far beyond just being a button pusher.if a guy has differant aesthetics than your for music dont hire them, if a guys aesthetics when recording are not what you were searching for then call the session and find someone else. people expect a studio to be a magic wand which will make their weak and unpracticed material sound like what they heard on some major record and often feel the need to place blame on others when the fault lies at the source. its one of the most difficult aspects of doing this as a living.

it blows my mind that a band would actually even put out record that they felt like sounded like total crap much less put bitchy liner notes in them. that is far far more disrespectfull imo

 

[Dani Pace]

Lets just accetp the facts, some of the best performance musicians make terrable studio musicians. Most of the people I deal with are used to playing live gigs and do not understand that what works live wont always work in the studio. Fancy moves and showmanship dosen't come across on recordings, neither does jumping around and knocking things over, unless you want a lot of noise and crashes on the recording. Musicians who are new to the studio environment have lot to learn so the best we can do is be patient with them.
The ones I find most challenging are those who think they need to bring their entire array of gear into the studio (to get their sound). Unfortunately most of us don't have room for 40 amps, 2 sets of drums, 50 people and a semi truckload of PA, not to mention 30 giggling groopies and a nagging mother-in-law. Even with all that... recording can be fun.

 

[boomtap]

I would be happy to lay down that $50 pedal, however the band will then get mad at me, the engineer, because thier sound doesn't sound like some big budget metal band. They want thier gear to do what it cannot do. I believe that you will sound only as good as A. your performance, and B. your gear. So practice and put in the overtime at work to get the real gear and *get that gear to sound like you would like it to before bringing it to record*. The true art of engineering is to get the exact sound of the insterment that you are recording, not turn a $50 pedal into a Mesa Dual 4x12.

 

[boomtap]

Keep in mind that they are not paying you to record your record. It is their record. PERIOD. If they just want a hi-fi jam tape with some mistakes punched in, or covered up with reverb, it's your job to give it to them.

I truly wish that this was all they wanted. That statement is like a dream beautiful dream I had once where all the musicians were happy and lollypops were everywhere, and fairys carried your gear, and there were happy elfish beings that gave you back massages while you recorded an entire symphny in 1 take.

What they truly want is to be the next Metallica on a $450 budget.

 

[mshilarious]

I call it like I see it. In fact if you listen to the files in my signature you will hear 2 of the bands that much of this is about.

Well, the first tune is mixed well, despite all that. Was that lyric actually "fornicating consequences"

 

[boomtap]

Well, the first tune is mixed well, despite all that. Was that lyric actually "fornicating consequences"

LOL...who knows, countless houre recording that 1-2 years ago, and I still don't know what they are saying. I could look on the jacket I guess. Both are examples of songs that got messed up by the artists whom couldn't just let things be what they are, in my opinion. They are OK, but could have been much better. The second song was done of 16 bit adat, using the worst drum set I have seen to date. I think it said K-Mart on it, and the guitar player insisted on 90 tracks of guitar so the mud insued.

Both recordings were made for $150 worth of recording time here : http://www.ftmstudios.com . If you live in Colorado and need an A facility for a project I recomend this place.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Falken brings up some good points. I've seen local engineers commit most of the following sins. Heck, I fired a guy that did WAY worse than these as well.

-tells you you will get a better sound with a pod (or worse yet - plugins) than your fender twin

Ugh. My opinion is if you can't mic an amp and get it to sound better than direct guitar/POD you need to find a new job.

-wants to use drum triggers on punk rock

Lot's of "punk" bands use triggers/sample replacement these days. It's just that most clients aren't educated enough to know the difference between real drums and triggers.

-wants to record rock n' roll on a computer

Heh, I only know of one client that ever complained about digital recording--and they had never recorded on an analog system. Analog is an impractical recording medium these days. Plus, how many bands want to pay 150 bucks for a reel of tape? Screw analog.

-wants to DI your guitar so they can change your settings once you're gone because they know more about getting your sound than you do

But if you've ever spent much time with clients you'd realize that they will want one thing and do the exact opposite. However, I'll be up front with them and ask permission to change their amp settings and use their equipment.

-wants to add cheezy digital reverb over all of the vocals

As opposed to cheezy analog reverb?

I don't know how you mix, but I put reverb on *ALL* vocals. It's not reverb that is evil, it's morons that don't know how to use it sparingly.

-spends 2 hours tweaking a harmonizer or somecrap then decides not to use it but bills you for the time

Never done that. I might spend 2 minutes tweaking Autotune if the singer can't sing.

-put compression on EVERYTHING

What's wrong with that?

-make everything sound like CREED.

Creed may be a lame band, but at least their albums sound halfway decent. Heck, most clients *WISH* they could sound as good as Creed.

-wants you to use THEIR equipment, not yours, because they know how to record "their" equipment more quickly even though it sounds worse.

Generally "my" equipment sounds better because it will never say Peavey, Crate, or Squire.

-doesn't "get" the music because they're too old so they don't really care if the final product sounds like horseshit or not.

I rarely "get" the music I have to record, but somehow it usually sounds pretty good... well, if it doesn't it is usually the band's fault.

-tries way to hard to get a drummer to play to a click track who obviously can't play to a click track.

You mean the drummer obviously can't play? IMHO if a drummer can't play to a click they can't play.

-basically wants to do things their way instead of the best way for a given band/project

I'll always give the client what they want, often much to the detriment of their project. But hey--it's THEIR project, right?

 

[KonradG]

jesus, tell them to hire a differant bass player. tell em you can bring in a session guy to do the parts for a bit of cash. then make that session person yourself.

LoL, feeling a bit entreprenuerial today?

 

[boomtap]

Heck everyday you work a few more hours for a few less dollars, need to make it up somewhere.

My buddy used to do sounds effects for shows like Power Rangers and other things on FOX, for $35 an hour, and then was replaced by guys making $10 an hour. If it keeps up a degree in sound engineering will get you a kick in the ass and $5.25 hour.

 

[Kryptik]

I truly wish that this was all they wanted. That statement is like a dream beautiful dream I had once where all the musicians were happy and lollypops were everywhere, and fairys carried your gear, and there were happy elfish beings that gave you back massages while you recorded an entire symphny in 1 take.

What they truly want is to be the next Metallica on a $450 budget.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be hard on you. I was just trying give a little idea on what is probably going through their minds and it just sort of turned into a rant. I didn't really mean to take it out on you. But yes all that would be nice.

 

[Kryptik]

Heck everyday you work a few more hours for a few less dollars, need to make it up somewhere.

My buddy used to do sounds effects for shows like Power Rangers and other things on FOX, for $35 an hour, and then was replaced by guys making $10 an hour. If it keeps up a degree in sound engineering will get you a kick in the ass and $5.25 hour.

Tell me about it, I got a computer science degree right when the bubble burst.
Now all the development jobs are going to India for $8/hr.

There's still some good ones out there though, but they usually go the people with 10yrs experience. I guess I'm stuck punching out pc boards for $10/hr + 0 benifits.

 

[boomtap]

Technology sucks. But I love it.

 

[MadAudio]

Heck everyday you work a few more hours for a few less dollars, need to make it up somewhere.

My buddy used to do sounds effects for shows like Power Rangers and other things on FOX, for $35 an hour, and then was replaced by guys making $10 an hour. If it keeps up a degree in sound engineering will get you a kick in the ass and $5.25 hour.

Full Sail must be destroyed!!!!

 

[KonradG]

As a musician, I completely understand the frustrations of trying to work alongside bands these days. Theres one thing I cannot stand, and that is someone who plays guitar or drums, and acts like it.
They don't have their heads on straight, and they dont have ears for the minute details required to create a song, much less the majority of them not having the precision to track the song correctly, therefor must be made up for in the engineering department of the production.
That's why I record the guitars, vocals, bass, drums and piano in all of my songs, then bring in a band to play live. Is that why producer/engineers like me?

 

[FALKEN]

Creed may be a lame band, but at least their albums sound halfway decent. Heck, most clients *WISH* they could sound as good as Creed.

sure, sure. but EVERYTHING shouldn't sound like creed. just bands that sound like creed.

Generally "my" equipment sounds better because it will never say Peavey, Crate, or Squire.

man, its not the brand name, its the application.

I rarely "get" the music I have to record, but somehow it usually sounds pretty good... well, if it doesn't it is usually the band's fault.

right.

You mean the drummer obviously can't play? IMHO if a drummer can't play to a click they can't play.

have you tried it?? seems to me some people can do it and some people can't. if they can't, you can't force them to. just move on. don't bitch about it though. "this drummer can't play to a click". jesus... has everybody just forgotten the roots of this music??? some people don't need a perfect album, with perfect timing, and every little nuance cut and pasted. sometimes its gotta be real.

I'll always give the client what they want, often much to the detriment of their project. But hey--it's THEIR project, right?

exactly. what you think is a detriment they might think is golden. I won't sit here and pretend to understand every genre of music. I just don't. for instance, I can't stand solid state marshalls. but in some genres that is the sound. don't ask me why, I have no clue. I would never play one. doesn't mean I wont record one just because they suck to my ears.

 

[giraffe]

my only real bitch is when someone comes in with a crate and a squire and thinks we can get the mesa/godsmack sound out of that rig.
um, i can't get that 300$ rig to sound like a 4000$ rig..... my bad
usually if you explain it up front, they'll understand.

i find that i need to be very careful about picking my "battles" often enough, doing something for them that i would never do for myself ends up with me learning something, weither i like it or not.

 

[giraffe]

oh, and i'd love to record rock on analogue.


just pm me and i'll give you an address where you can send the equipment.
until then, i'm afraid i'll have to the best in the box that i can.

can't wait for my new equipment!!!!

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Okay, here are some real stories about an engineer that got fired from the studio I'm at:

1.) Insisted to a death metal band that they need to sound more like Evanessence so they can sell more albums. Proceeded to mix said band as if they were Def Leppard.

2.) Would dictate to clients that a performance was fine, even though it contained obvious errors. When client wanted to listen back he refused to play it back because it was "perfect."

3.) Personal motto was: "we'll fix it in the mix!" which always morphed into "we'll fix it in the master!"

4.) Insisted on using DigiRack plugins rather than the Focusrite, BombFactory or McDSP plugs.

5.) Would rather spend an hour digitally editing a minor mistake to show off than spend two minutes punching it in.

6.) Would press "record" and take a smoke break while the clients did a take--every time.

7.) Would only record guitar through AmpFarm because setting up an amp and miking it was a "waste of time" and "sounded bad."

8.) Would overdub clients' tracks with synth without asking permission. Would argue for its merit and inclusion after clients repeatedly told him to take it off. Would add synth to anything from country to punk rock. Ever hear a Moog bass blurping through a country tune??? Trust me, you don't want to.

9.) Would try to convine clients to record at his home studio because it was "better" for 35 bucks an hour (studio charges 50) so he could personally make more money. This was also how he got fired.

10.) Would clip 90% of the tracks because he insisted you have to record around -1 dbfs to "get the bits." Claimed that clipping gave a saturated sound to the recording.

11.) Claimed that tuning drums was a waste of time because "compression and EQ" made drums sound good.

12.) Managed to Autotune vocals to the wrong key--and didn't notice.

13.) Insisted that the SM81 was a tube mic. (???)

14.) Didn't consider a drum kit ready to record until it had 20 pounds of tape and cotton on it.

 

[KonradG]

my only real bitch is when someone comes in with a crate and a squire and thinks we can get the mesa/godsmack sound out of that rig.

I LOVE MY MESA

 

[giraffe]

cloneboy's employee

problem: idiot

solution: don't f'n hire idiots.