H
Harvey Gerst
New member
Do a Google search for " Toucans Steel Drum Band".
radiorabies
New member
Also, they're not being consistent. Originally they said:Mindcore said:
(bugger censorship, I changed my name
"we have issues with your other www.myspace.com/deadhorses page as well and will only allow you to continue using this page IF YOU CHANGE ANY AND ALL REFERENCES TO THE DEAD HORSES"Which is what I did. I think my personal account on MySpace is irrelevant. They're just being petty. Are they gonna e-mail cease and desist e-mails to everyone who has the username deadhorses on the internet? (I had two on MySpace, deadhorses and thedeadhorses (which was a music profile, which I don't need anymore with the name change and all)... my personal one doesn't even have "the" on the beginning). I have yet to e-mail them at all so far, but this has been going on for a ruddy week now...
thane1200
Medicated Member
radiorabies
New member
I don't think they've got a case... They can't copyright their band name nor is it a trademark nor is it registered anywhere online on a registry.
I e-mailed them these facts with links etc. and I'm awaitng a response. I said "If they can't provide evidence of a trademark ownership I will proceed in legal action for harrassment"...
Oh yeah, they also told me to edit my podcast to take our the term "The Dead Horses". I think they're being a little silly now, although they got my podcast listing taken off of a directory... The sods...
I e-mailed them these facts with links etc. and I'm awaitng a response. I said "If they can't provide evidence of a trademark ownership I will proceed in legal action for harrassment"...
Oh yeah, they also told me to edit my podcast to take our the term "The Dead Horses". I think they're being a little silly now, although they got my podcast listing taken off of a directory... The sods...
radiorabies
New member
I thought they were getting a little silly with the whole "Edit Your Podcast" thing but this is getting petty. They've now demanded that I edit my blogs so all references to "The Dead Horses" are gone. They want me to rewrite my history.. They've dropped the whole MySpace account and domain stuff, and are resorting to being childish...
Just wanted to get it off my chest...
Just wanted to get it off my chest...
Monsoon
New member
How about telling them that you're setting your email filter to automatically bounce any email from them going forward.
radiorabies
New member
OK, I think I might have won the war now... I emailed him explaining I'm not rewriting history for anybody and that everything that's going to be ediited has been editted... And any further messages he posts to me until he can prove his trademark ownership... Will be treated as harrassment and will be dealt with accordingly... I've not heard a peep since )
One for the small man!!!
)One for the small man!!!
MadAudio
Damned if I do
Well I just checked out the Slovakian band at MySpace and I think they suck! And they only have 5 friends!
P
PMJ
New member
I included a couple of links at the bottom to a Trade Mark website.
You should also look at the costs invovled from their part. If they are a BIG name and have attornyes, managers, etc. Thats something serious. Before they would have any legal ground or even be worth the pusth, I assume they would have their band name registerd as a Trade Mark! Then for them to take any legal action, they would first have to retain and hire a lawyer hear in the US in your state. 2nd, if they had ground to sue you, unless you are makin bank off this name, all they more and likely would get is a judge to say, you legally can no longer use #### as your band name. 3rd, if they really had the resources, it would be their attorny contacting you. Other than that its a batttle of who registers first, even you get it first, their could still be a lawsuit, but I wouldnt trip about it.
There is a lot of paper work and a waiting period to legally register, search, and make offiicial anything, band name, business names, logos, etc as an official Trade Mark. The situation your in, if either of you blow up, could be a mess..
Word, Disclaimer, Im not an attorney. This infomations is simply stuff I've learned and may not be accurate with the current laws....
IF you really want to know how complex it is, check it out for yourself.
http://www.registeringatrademark.com/trademark-timeline.shtml
http://www.registeringatrademark.com/
You should also look at the costs invovled from their part. If they are a BIG name and have attornyes, managers, etc. Thats something serious. Before they would have any legal ground or even be worth the pusth, I assume they would have their band name registerd as a Trade Mark! Then for them to take any legal action, they would first have to retain and hire a lawyer hear in the US in your state. 2nd, if they had ground to sue you, unless you are makin bank off this name, all they more and likely would get is a judge to say, you legally can no longer use #### as your band name. 3rd, if they really had the resources, it would be their attorny contacting you. Other than that its a batttle of who registers first, even you get it first, their could still be a lawsuit, but I wouldnt trip about it.
There is a lot of paper work and a waiting period to legally register, search, and make offiicial anything, band name, business names, logos, etc as an official Trade Mark. The situation your in, if either of you blow up, could be a mess..
Word, Disclaimer, Im not an attorney. This infomations is simply stuff I've learned and may not be accurate with the current laws....
IF you really want to know how complex it is, check it out for yourself.
http://www.registeringatrademark.com/trademark-timeline.shtml
http://www.registeringatrademark.com/
dcwave
New member
Dude... changing your name and internet stuff and acknowledging it can be used against you - you basically admited that you don't have the right to use the name.
Ceast and desist notices come via the post, registered, return receipt required or you get served by a constable. Emails saying ceast and desist are not worth the paper they came on.
Ceast and desist notices come via the post, registered, return receipt required or you get served by a constable. Emails saying ceast and desist are not worth the paper they came on.
H
HomeMadeHitShow
Member
dcwave said:
I was about to say that. Sadly you just caved dude. It's a classic tactic, send an official looking email and scare the other person, I've done it. If they really were able to stop you then you would have received something from a lawyer. At this point you've screwed yourself and given in to a bully.
BTW: HIM are HIM here and were never HER
BTW2: Apple Corps sued Apple Computer over iTunes and iPod. I don't know for sure but I believe that Apple Computer paid a huge settlement to Apple Corps.
radiorabies
New member
You see the thing was, I was being harrassed (a total of 12 e-mails and messages) I just got fed up with it all... Anyway, I've discussed it with my brother and online we're going under the Horse's Mouth but in day to day shows etc. it's going to be The Dead Horses still...
That manager was a bully and I can think of someother names too. Many of them with 4 letters. He didn't seem the sort who'd listen to what you say, don't worry, I WILL have the last laugh... I've already taken the first swipe in my lastest podcast episode... (OK, it's a little lame but I felt good about it...)
That manager was a bully and I can think of someother names too. Many of them with 4 letters. He didn't seem the sort who'd listen to what you say, don't worry, I WILL have the last laugh... I've already taken the first swipe in my lastest podcast episode... (OK, it's a little lame but I felt good about it...)
mshilarious
Banned
radiorabies said:
Horse's Mouth is a much better name anyway. Change it all around, register it in the UK (check to see if someone has of course!), and don't look back, just put this behind you. Pranks might come back to haunt you . . .
radiorabies
New member
Yeah I checked the Horse's Mouth before we decided, nobody as far as I can tell is using it online or in the UK... No ruddy domains are still available though.
It's not pranks exactly, more like subtle digs at him... They're my favourite kind...
It's not pranks exactly, more like subtle digs at him... They're my favourite kind...
C
Chibi Nappa
New member
3 pages and not one joke about "The New Originals". 
Treeline
New member
Never play with a stalker.
Go to a Barrister with a background in intellectual property law and buy one hour of time. Ask the basic question: "We had an issue with someone out there over a website name and it rattled us. We want to do this website without causing infringement and without suffering harassment. How do we protect ourselves?" Don't waste time with what you think is relevant history - just respond to questions if they come up. You should get a straight answer for an hour's time, and maybe reference to some local industry resources in the bargain. Choose a band name, register it, trademark it, do whatever you can afford to protect it, and block the stalker from your e-mail.
Try nosing around here for basic information, including some pertaining to international trademark / copyright treaties: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
Go to a Barrister with a background in intellectual property law and buy one hour of time. Ask the basic question: "We had an issue with someone out there over a website name and it rattled us. We want to do this website without causing infringement and without suffering harassment. How do we protect ourselves?" Don't waste time with what you think is relevant history - just respond to questions if they come up. You should get a straight answer for an hour's time, and maybe reference to some local industry resources in the bargain. Choose a band name, register it, trademark it, do whatever you can afford to protect it, and block the stalker from your e-mail.
Try nosing around here for basic information, including some pertaining to international trademark / copyright treaties: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
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T
txladykat
New member
trademark infringment is a very, very tricky field. I am not an attorney, but a paralegal, and used to work in IP (intellectual property) law. Yes, most attorneys will see you on an initial visit for free, then bill you for any subsequent visits if you agree to hire them. IP attorneys are not cheap.
I recommend in the future, for anyone, if money is an issue, check with your local bar association, they all have pro bono groups, pro bono basically means the lawyer works for free. but there is typically a waiting list, so if time is an issue, then dont go that route, if time is not an issue, it is a good way to get a free lawyer when you can't afford one.
In the future, DO NOT respond to their emails, they have to prove you received the cease and desist by email in the first place, which they cant do if it is sent by email. If you get a certified letter, then I would take it seriously. Anyone who is serious about infringement prosecution will always send a certified letter. But, if you litigation ever ensues and you do acknowledge receiving the email, and they allege infringement from THAT date of notice, and they prevail, you can be held accountable for infringement during that period as well.
I am not a lawyer, but here are some basics:
The two key concepts involved in "protecting" the name of a band are "territory" and "priority". Territory means the area where you use the name, e.g., Chicago, Illinois, Mid-West, United States, world-wide, etc. Priority, as the word implies, involves who uses the name first. These two concepts work together to limit the scope of protection for a name.
If you started using your name first, you can prevent others from using it. However, the law allows you exclusive use of the name only in the area where you have used it. For example, if you started playing the Chicagoland area in 1989 and never played or distributed music outside the Chicagoland area, you could not prevent a band from using the name in Florida. However, they could not use the band name in Chicagoland since you were the first to use the band name there. You also may acquire the rights to your name for Chicago in 1989 and nation-wide in 1992 when you release your first record for a major. If someone started using your name in another part of the country in 1990, you could not prevent their use in their territory since they have priority in that area
A famous case involved two bands both performing under the name, "Flash". The first was a small band in San Francisco who had never recorded a record and the second was an English band who had a major label deal. Since the San Francisco "Flash" was a prior user in that area, the English "Flash" was not allowed to sell albums in the Bay area.
Before investing money in the name of your band, you should investigate whether anyone else is already using the name. If someone is already using your name, as explained above, they have priority in their territory. A good place to start is BMI and ASCAP. Both of these organizations will do a search of their roosters for conflicting names. You may also check Phonolog which is a list of albums and can be found at many record stores. Also check out the annual Billboard International Talent & Touring Directory. There are also many resources at libraries in large metropolitan areas. The librarians will also assist you in doing a trademark search of state and federal trademarks. The final place you may consider searching is the Secretary of State of California and New York. Since these are the two largest "entertainment" states, they can be helpful as well. The Secretary of State can tell you if they have any businesses registered under the proposed name. You can never be guaranteed that no one is using your name somewhere, but these avenues are a good place to start.
After checking the availability of your name, you should take steps to protect that name. As stated above, priority of use in a specific territory is the key to protecting a name. Keep careful records of your public use of the name. Record where and when you played or sold records, and any publicity so as to prove what territory you have used the name in and for how long. As for legal protection, there are a few routes you can take.
You cannot copyright a band name. The correct legal protection is a trademark. Within trademark law there is a category called servicemarks. A trademark identifies a product while a servicemark identifies a service. Since a band is in the business of providing entertainment services, a servicemark is the proper tool to protect the name of a band.
The amount of protection you want for the band directly reflects the amount of money it will cost you. The least expensive route is a state trademark. Fees vary from state to state, but they are generally under $100. A state trademark gives you protection throughout the state you register. You can get the application by calling the Secretary of State. If you don't have a record contract or don't tour nationwide, I recommend a state trademark to start.
The next step is a federal trademark. A federal trademark gives you rights throughout the entire United States. The application fee for a federal trademark is presently $245. If your music is distributed throughout the United States or you do extensive touring, you may want to obtain a federal trademark. These forms can be obtained by calling (703) 308-4357.
Since the entertainment industry is now world-wide, there are 175 countries that allow the registration of trademarks and 60 which allow the registration of entertainment servicemarks. Even if you focus on the five or so most important jurisdictions, (Great Britain, Canada, Germany, Mexico and France), you are still talking a great deal of money for trademark protection on a worldwide basis.
Finally, the "(R)" symbol: what does it mean? Unlike the copyright symbol, "©" (which anyone can use whether their work is registered with the Copyright Office or not), the trademark symbol, "(R)", can only be used if you have a federally registered trademark. By using the "(R)" symbol, you put everyone on notice that you own the trademark and anyone using it would be a wilful infringer. There is also a "TM" symbol used occasionally. This has no legal definition or significance, but is generally used to claim ownership of an unregistered trademark.
In conclusion, when starting a band, you should: first, research the proposed name for conflicting uses; second, document the dates and territory where you use the band name; third, take steps to protect the name through servicemarks.
I recommend in the future, for anyone, if money is an issue, check with your local bar association, they all have pro bono groups, pro bono basically means the lawyer works for free. but there is typically a waiting list, so if time is an issue, then dont go that route, if time is not an issue, it is a good way to get a free lawyer when you can't afford one.
In the future, DO NOT respond to their emails, they have to prove you received the cease and desist by email in the first place, which they cant do if it is sent by email. If you get a certified letter, then I would take it seriously. Anyone who is serious about infringement prosecution will always send a certified letter. But, if you litigation ever ensues and you do acknowledge receiving the email, and they allege infringement from THAT date of notice, and they prevail, you can be held accountable for infringement during that period as well.
I am not a lawyer, but here are some basics:
The two key concepts involved in "protecting" the name of a band are "territory" and "priority". Territory means the area where you use the name, e.g., Chicago, Illinois, Mid-West, United States, world-wide, etc. Priority, as the word implies, involves who uses the name first. These two concepts work together to limit the scope of protection for a name.
If you started using your name first, you can prevent others from using it. However, the law allows you exclusive use of the name only in the area where you have used it. For example, if you started playing the Chicagoland area in 1989 and never played or distributed music outside the Chicagoland area, you could not prevent a band from using the name in Florida. However, they could not use the band name in Chicagoland since you were the first to use the band name there. You also may acquire the rights to your name for Chicago in 1989 and nation-wide in 1992 when you release your first record for a major. If someone started using your name in another part of the country in 1990, you could not prevent their use in their territory since they have priority in that area
A famous case involved two bands both performing under the name, "Flash". The first was a small band in San Francisco who had never recorded a record and the second was an English band who had a major label deal. Since the San Francisco "Flash" was a prior user in that area, the English "Flash" was not allowed to sell albums in the Bay area.
Before investing money in the name of your band, you should investigate whether anyone else is already using the name. If someone is already using your name, as explained above, they have priority in their territory. A good place to start is BMI and ASCAP. Both of these organizations will do a search of their roosters for conflicting names. You may also check Phonolog which is a list of albums and can be found at many record stores. Also check out the annual Billboard International Talent & Touring Directory. There are also many resources at libraries in large metropolitan areas. The librarians will also assist you in doing a trademark search of state and federal trademarks. The final place you may consider searching is the Secretary of State of California and New York. Since these are the two largest "entertainment" states, they can be helpful as well. The Secretary of State can tell you if they have any businesses registered under the proposed name. You can never be guaranteed that no one is using your name somewhere, but these avenues are a good place to start.
After checking the availability of your name, you should take steps to protect that name. As stated above, priority of use in a specific territory is the key to protecting a name. Keep careful records of your public use of the name. Record where and when you played or sold records, and any publicity so as to prove what territory you have used the name in and for how long. As for legal protection, there are a few routes you can take.
You cannot copyright a band name. The correct legal protection is a trademark. Within trademark law there is a category called servicemarks. A trademark identifies a product while a servicemark identifies a service. Since a band is in the business of providing entertainment services, a servicemark is the proper tool to protect the name of a band.
The amount of protection you want for the band directly reflects the amount of money it will cost you. The least expensive route is a state trademark. Fees vary from state to state, but they are generally under $100. A state trademark gives you protection throughout the state you register. You can get the application by calling the Secretary of State. If you don't have a record contract or don't tour nationwide, I recommend a state trademark to start.
The next step is a federal trademark. A federal trademark gives you rights throughout the entire United States. The application fee for a federal trademark is presently $245. If your music is distributed throughout the United States or you do extensive touring, you may want to obtain a federal trademark. These forms can be obtained by calling (703) 308-4357.
Since the entertainment industry is now world-wide, there are 175 countries that allow the registration of trademarks and 60 which allow the registration of entertainment servicemarks. Even if you focus on the five or so most important jurisdictions, (Great Britain, Canada, Germany, Mexico and France), you are still talking a great deal of money for trademark protection on a worldwide basis.
Finally, the "(R)" symbol: what does it mean? Unlike the copyright symbol, "©" (which anyone can use whether their work is registered with the Copyright Office or not), the trademark symbol, "(R)", can only be used if you have a federally registered trademark. By using the "(R)" symbol, you put everyone on notice that you own the trademark and anyone using it would be a wilful infringer. There is also a "TM" symbol used occasionally. This has no legal definition or significance, but is generally used to claim ownership of an unregistered trademark.
In conclusion, when starting a band, you should: first, research the proposed name for conflicting uses; second, document the dates and territory where you use the band name; third, take steps to protect the name through servicemarks.
junplugged
Taking the slow road
well, Treeline is a lawyer, so you got some good info there.
also, it is quite telling that they said that you may hear from their attorney. So that means that they made the cease and desist themselves, without any legal advice, so the whole thing may not even be valid.
(even if your real name was Billy Joel, you couldn't use it.)
also, it is quite telling that they said that you may hear from their attorney. So that means that they made the cease and desist themselves, without any legal advice, so the whole thing may not even be valid.
(even if your real name was Billy Joel, you couldn't use it.)
radiorabies
New member
As you all know, I crumbled and changed the name of the band and all that. All references taken down etc. And I recieved a forwarded e-mail from them this morning between the manager and the band... They're still going ahead with this even though I'm not longer the Dead Horses... How stupid is that??... It's kind of entertaining though. Here are some quotes from their e-mail:
Band member (31/1/06): "I had the lawyer of Slovkoncert on the phone a couple of minutes ago and he told me it has nothing to do with copyrights ;yet the english riding the name is a trespass on the name or encroachment of the band`s name if you know what I mean. The lawyer told me we can sue the son of a bitch."
Here's my favourite bit from the manager (31/1/06): "Anyway, it sounds like we will prevail...you aren't even signed yet and already have legal issues with someone trying to use your name, if that isn't rock star meterial I don't know what is. What a great book this will make 10-15 years down the road, you are taking notes right?
"
A book? What are they gonna write? "We threatened somebody to change their band name... they did. The end"
Entertaining huh? The case is now closed surely? I've even bought a new domain to save confusion.
Thanks to everybody who gave advice and all that. I really appreciate it
Band member (31/1/06): "I had the lawyer of Slovkoncert on the phone a couple of minutes ago and he told me it has nothing to do with copyrights ;yet the english riding the name is a trespass on the name or encroachment of the band`s name if you know what I mean. The lawyer told me we can sue the son of a bitch."
Here's my favourite bit from the manager (31/1/06): "Anyway, it sounds like we will prevail...you aren't even signed yet and already have legal issues with someone trying to use your name, if that isn't rock star meterial I don't know what is. What a great book this will make 10-15 years down the road, you are taking notes right?
"A book? What are they gonna write? "We threatened somebody to change their band name... they did. The end"
Entertaining huh? The case is now closed surely? I've even bought a new domain to save confusion.
Thanks to everybody who gave advice and all that. I really appreciate it
R
Rusty K
New member
Turn them in as a terrorist website and have Blair bomb the country.
Seriously they have no legal standing or authority in your country. The internet is uncharted legal territory...forget it! Can you imagine the legal expense of pursuing this in international courts? If you waste money on a lawyer you are crazy.
They've suckered you!
Rusty K
Seriously they have no legal standing or authority in your country. The internet is uncharted legal territory...forget it! Can you imagine the legal expense of pursuing this in international courts? If you waste money on a lawyer you are crazy.
They've suckered you!
Rusty K