Backward Masking, does anyone do it anymore?

[c7sus]

Weird Al does some, I can't recall the tune.

My kid took the time to decifer it and the message was "My but you have a lot of time on your hands" or something to that effect.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

if you doubt that, listen to pat metheny's "the way up." better yet, watch the live performance on dvd. billboard couldn't care less about it, but it acts as proof positive that unparalleled excellence is happening all around us. you just have to know where to look.

The difference between now and 30-40 years ago or so is that back then you didn't have to look so hard; you could hear Pat Metheney (or similar artists of the time) on the radio. It didn't have to be Billboard to be played.

The early 70's were an absolute magic time for FM radio - at least here in Chicago. It wasn't unusual (on the right station, and usually after 7pm) to be able to hear Pat Metheney, Jethro Tull, Walter Carlos, Pink Floyd, The Animals, Woody Guthrie, Nat King Cole and the New York Symphony all in one 40-minute set.

But music DJs have since been replaced by demographic analysis and computerized playlists,

And yeah, there was drek back then too. But the drek-to-quality ratio on radio playlists was much higher when you had music-loving human beings playing program director.

G.

 

[drossfile]

The difference between now and 30-40 years ago or so is that back then you didn't have to look so hard; you could hear Pat Metheney (or similar artists of the time) on the radio. It didn't have to be Billboard to be played.

The early 70's were an absolute magic time for FM radio - at least here in Chicago. It wasn't unusual (on the right station, and usually after 7pm) to be able to hear Pat Metheney, Jethro Tull, Walter Carlos, Pink Floyd, The Animals, Woody Guthrie, Nat King Cole and the New York Symphony all in one 40-minute set.

But music DJs have since been replaced by demographic analysis and computerized playlists,

And yeah, there was drek back then too. But the drek-to-quality ratio on radio playlists was much higher when you had music-loving human beings playing program director.

G.

you'll get no argument from me here. that was exactly my point--the industry has changed into a one-hit-wonder manufacturing plant, and that sucks. bill bruford talks about the sea change within the record companies during the 70s in his autobio (good read btw).

but there's such an increased quantity in music out there now than there was then simply because of the availability of technology (recording gear, internet, etc), that the law of averages dictates that you're going to have a whole lot of real talent floating around for consumption. hell, i can't believe how many great unsigned bands i've found on myspace alone.

sure, you have to dig a little more to find it, but i grew up in the 80s anyway, so i'm used to having to turn off the radio and dig for good music.

 

[Farview]

My band and I are doing a song called Emergency where I used back masking on the cymbals on the intro and 3rd chorus. I was also wondering if it is possible to do this on the pc.

What you did isn't backwards masking. Backwards masking is when you hide a spoken message played backwards way in the back of a mix. What you did is the reverse cymbal/reverb/decay trick that is so much easier to do on a computer than it ever was on tape.

I have mentioned on several threads that it seems like cd's for the most part are just thrown together and mass produced for profit and the art of music is going by the wayside.

Really??!!! Where is the profit you are speaking of? Recording deals are getting smaller and smaller because no one is buying CD's. Well known bands have to get day jobs between tours (I'm talking bands that are signed to Atlantic and have been Grammy nominated).

 

[gcapel]

I have mentioned on several threads that it seems like cd's for the most part are just thrown together and mass produced for profit and the art of music is going by the wayside. Anyway, I was just curious.

I feel the exact opposite. The art is there you just have to find it. Mainstream crap is mainstream crap if its recorded at studio big bucks or my house. THe art of music is alive and well more than ever. Today there are so many sub genres.

Check out the last free NIN album called "The Slip". Tt was thrown together but for no profit.

 

[dean1964]

What you did isn't backwards masking. Backwards masking is when you hide a spoken message played backwards way in the back of a mix.

Actually, backwards masking is a psychoacoustic phenomenon where the first of two sounds arriving at the ear is masked by the second. Usually, in tests, the first sound is a sine wave and the second is white noise of a particular bandwidth. An example found in the real world is trying to have a conversation on the phone in a really noisy environment.

Backmasking is a slang term for the hidden message thing.

both of which have nothing to do with playing a track backwards.

Cheers!
Adam

 

[dodgeaspen]

What you did isn't backwards masking. Backwards masking is when you hide a spoken message played backwards way in the back of a mix. What you did is the reverse cymbal/reverb/decay trick that is so much easier to do on a computer than it ever was on tape.


Really??!!! Where is the profit you are speaking of? Recording deals are getting smaller and smaller because no one is buying CD's. Well known bands have to get day jobs between tours (I'm talking bands that are signed to Atlantic and have been Grammy nominated).

You seem new.

Ok, maybe a better term would be commercialized instead of profit. I should have made myself clearer on that statement.

 

[Todzilla]

Are y'all really trying to pretend that Yes and Genesis music was somehow all over the radio back in the 70s?

Here's the top twenty commercial songs from 1973. Except for Flack, Gaye, Preston and Edgar, it's pretty lame. Somehow they didn't list "Siberian Khatru"

01. Tie A Yellow Ribbon 'Round The Ole Oak Tree » Tony Orlando & Dawn
02. Bad Bad Leroy Brown » Jim Croce
03. Killing Me Softly With His Song » Roberta Flack
04. Let's Get It On » Marvin Gaye
05. My Love » Paul McCartney & Wings
06. Why Me » Kris Kristofferson
07. Crocodile Rock » Elton John
08. Will It Go Round In Circles » Billy Preston
09. You're So Vain » Carly Simon
10. Touch Me In The Morning » Diana Ross
11. The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia » Vicki Lawrence
12. Playground In My Mind » Clint Holmes
13. Brother Louie » Stories
14. Delta Dawn » Helen Reddy
15. Me And Mrs. Jones » Billy Paul
16. Frankenstein » Edgar Winter Group
17. Drift Away » Dobie Gray
18. Little Willy » Sweet
19. You Are The Sunshine Of My Life » Stevie Wonder
20. Half Breed » Cher

 

[fat_fleet]

any audiophile, myself included, will tell you the old stuff is better.
about 80% of what i listen to was released prior to 1989 and about 50% before 1980.
there are some newer things i like (southern lord records, the "terrastock" scene, etc), but those things have a decidedly retro vibe to them.
i blame our smug senses of irony for the crapiness of alot of today's music. it used to be acceptable and even respectable to make "important music". alot of it came out pretty overwrought but at least you were allowed to try. nowadays, forget it. to even try is pretentious. if you're in a band and you practice regularly, you're probably a buncha squares. i mean, who do you think you are? some kinda rock star? someone mentioned thick as a brick. yeah i remember getting goosebumps from that when i was 14. now albums like that are more the butt of jokes than anything else. i mean, not to get all defensive about thick as a brick which really was in alot of ways some pompous poopoo, all i'm saying is that the change in our cultural barometer that made epics like that unlistenable to modern ears might not entirely be such a good thing. after all, your new song is only gonna be as important as you think it is.

regarding compact discs, i think the CD is a pretty cheap and easily damaged media format. not quite as awful as cassette tapes, but close. a tiny scratch can easily render an entire CD completely unplayable. i hope they soon go the way of the 8-track. i still love the direct contact and novelty (full-size artwork etc) of vinyl, so it's pretty much between that and my iPod.

i disagree about backwards tracking being gimmicky, especially on the old stuff (hendrix etc). a product of it's time maybe, but no more or less gimmicky than the things folks are doing these days to fill the sonic spectrum. i've also heard backwards tracking used with a great deal of success on alot of newer records. to my way of thinking, it's all about surprising the ears, and there's no right or wrong way to do that.

 

[Seafroggys]

I'm sure some people inferred that, but the fact remains that an album, such as Thick as a Brick that I mentioned, can never get to #1 in today's world, or top 10, or even top 40. Damn good if it makes it on the 200.

@Todzilla

 

[dodgeaspen]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll give the cd's that have been suggested a listen to. I must admit the more I listen to the underground music on this forum the more I become a fan. I have to say that one of my favorite bands of the late 60's had the worst sounding productions on the planet, I'm referring to Iron Butterfly. I love the stony sound, but the quality of the recordings are very poor. Almost sounds like they used an ol" 8 track tape cartridge to record. I'm sure this post will cause debates in itself but that's ok.

 

[outerspacezoo]

i use it quite often in my songs ... 85 percent of them have it. not only does it add mystery to the songs, but it serves other purposes...

 

[fat_fleet]

01. Tie A Yellow Ribbon 'Round The Ole Oak Tree » Tony Orlando & Dawn
02. Bad Bad Leroy Brown » Jim Croce
03. Killing Me Softly With His Song » Roberta Flack
04. Let's Get It On » Marvin Gaye
05. My Love » Paul McCartney & Wings
06. Why Me » Kris Kristofferson
07. Crocodile Rock » Elton John
08. Will It Go Round In Circles » Billy Preston
09. You're So Vain » Carly Simon
10. Touch Me In The Morning » Diana Ross
11. The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia » Vicki Lawrence
12. Playground In My Mind » Clint Holmes
13. Brother Louie » Stories
14. Delta Dawn » Helen Reddy
15. Me And Mrs. Jones » Billy Paul
16. Frankenstein » Edgar Winter Group
17. Drift Away » Dobie Gray
18. Little Willy » Sweet
19. You Are The Sunshine Of My Life » Stevie Wonder
20. Half Breed » Cher

true, there were no Yes songs during that particular week, but how many of those songs still get regular airplay? at least half of them?
now take a look at this chart, only a couple weeks old:

1 I Gotta Feeling - Black Eyed Peas
2 Best I Ever Had - Drake
3 You Belong With Me - Taylor Swift
4 Knock You Down - Keri Hilson
5 Fire Burning - Sean Kingston
6 No Surprise - Daughtry
7 New Divide - Linkin Park
8 Obsessed - Mariah Carey
9 Boom Boom Pow - Black Eyed Peas
10 Love Game - Lady Gaga
11 Fallin' For You - Colbie Caillat
12 1, 2, 3, 4 - Plain White T's
13 D.O.A. (Death Of Auto-Tune) - Jay-Z
14 He Could Be The One - Hannah Montana
15 I Know You Want Me (Calle Ocho) - Pitbull
16 Poker Face - Lady Gaga
17 Ego - Beyonce Knowles
18 Every Girl - Young Money
19 Birthday Sex - Jeremih
20 Never Say Never - Fray


where will these songs be in thirty years?
what about ten?
maybe they'll go the way of these songs (from ten years ago):


1 Genie In A Bottle - Christina Aguilera
2 All Star - Smash Mouth
3 If You Had My Love - Jennifer Lopez
4 Last Kiss - Pearl Jam
5 I Want It That Way - Backstreet Boys
6 Tell Me It's Real - K-ci & Jojo
7 Wild Wild West - Will Smith Featuring Dru Hill & Kool Moe Dee
8 Bailamos - Enriqu
9 Someday - Sugar Ray
10 I Will Remember You - Sarah Mclachlan
11 She's So High - Tal Bachman
12 Bills, Bills, Bills - Destiny's Child
13 Sometimes - Britney Spears
14 Summer Girls - Lfo
15 Smile - Vitamin C Featuring Lady Saw
16 Better Days (and The Bottom..) - Citizen King
17 Out Of My Head - Fastball
18 Beautiful Stranger - Madonna
19 Hey Leonardo (she Likes Me...) - Blessed Union Of Souls
20 It's Not Right But It's Okay - Whitney Houston

the christina aguilera, backstreet boys, and sarah mclachlan songs are still kicking around, but other than that most of these have been lost to the ravages of time. even heavy hitters like britney, madonna, and pearl jam (ugh lukewarm frank wilson cover that was so painful to hear) were past their prime and releasing substandard material. lmao, by the way, at destiny's child complaining about "bills, bills, bills".

 

[Seafroggys]

1 Genie In A Bottle - Christina Aguilera
2 All Star - Smash Mouth
3 If You Had My Love - Jennifer Lopez
4 Last Kiss - Pearl Jam
5 I Want It That Way - Backstreet Boys
6 Tell Me It's Real - K-ci & Jojo
7 Wild Wild West - Will Smith Featuring Dru Hill & Kool Moe Dee
8 Bailamos - Enriqu
9 Someday - Sugar Ray
10 I Will Remember You - Sarah Mclachlan
11 She's So High - Tal Bachman
12 Bills, Bills, Bills - Destiny's Child
13 Sometimes - Britney Spears
14 Summer Girls - Lfo
15 Smile - Vitamin C Featuring Lady Saw
16 Better Days (and The Bottom..) - Citizen King
17 Out Of My Head - Fastball
18 Beautiful Stranger - Madonna
19 Hey Leonardo (she Likes Me...) - Blessed Union Of Souls
20 It's Not Right But It's Okay - Whitney Houston

god I remember those songs so well. I was 12 that summer, it was perhaps my most "in-tuned to popular music" era ever, which is why I remember practically all those songs (I'm sure I'd know all of them if I heard them)

But yeah, a lot of those songs are fairly non-existent in this day and age.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Are y'all really trying to pretend that Yes and Genesis music was somehow all over the radio back in the 70s?

Here's the top twenty commercial songs from 1973. Except for Flack, Gaye, Preston and Edgar, it's pretty lame. Somehow they didn't list "Siberian Khatru"

01. Tie A Yellow Ribbon 'Round The Ole Oak Tree » Tony Orlando & Dawn
02. Bad Bad Leroy Brown » Jim Croce
03. Killing Me Softly With His Song » Roberta Flack
04. Let's Get It On » Marvin Gaye
05. My Love » Paul McCartney & Wings
06. Why Me » Kris Kristofferson
07. Crocodile Rock » Elton John
08. Will It Go Round In Circles » Billy Preston
09. You're So Vain » Carly Simon
10. Touch Me In The Morning » Diana Ross
11. The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia » Vicki Lawrence
12. Playground In My Mind » Clint Holmes
13. Brother Louie » Stories
14. Delta Dawn » Helen Reddy
15. Me And Mrs. Jones » Billy Paul
16. Frankenstein » Edgar Winter Group
17. Drift Away » Dobie Gray
18. Little Willy » Sweet
19. You Are The Sunshine Of My Life » Stevie Wonder
20. Half Breed » Cher

I guess the difference between us two is that I listened to Albem rock, and you listened to pop.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Actually, backwards masking is a psychoacoustic phenomenon where the first of two sounds arriving at the ear is masked by the second. Usually, in tests, the first sound is a sine wave and the second is white noise of a particular bandwidth. An example found in the real world is trying to have a conversation on the phone in a really noisy environment.

Backmasking is a slang term for the hidden message thing.

both of which have nothing to do with playing a track backwards.

Cheers!
Adam

We are all talking about Reverend Muncie and his magic reel to reel recorder that played rock songs backwards and deciphered messages from satan.

 

[Bristol Posse]

true, there were no Yes songs during that particular week, but how many of those songs still get regular airplay? at least half of them?
now take a look at this chart, only a couple weeks old:

1 I Gotta Feeling - Black Eyed Peas
2 Best I Ever Had - Drake
3 You Belong With Me - Taylor Swift
4 Knock You Down - Keri Hilson
5 Fire Burning - Sean Kingston
6 No Surprise - Daughtry
7 New Divide - Linkin Park
8 Obsessed - Mariah Carey
9 Boom Boom Pow - Black Eyed Peas
10 Love Game - Lady Gaga
11 Fallin' For You - Colbie Caillat
12 1, 2, 3, 4 - Plain White T's
13 D.O.A. (Death Of Auto-Tune) - Jay-Z
14 He Could Be The One - Hannah Montana
15 I Know You Want Me (Calle Ocho) - Pitbull
16 Poker Face - Lady Gaga
17 Ego - Beyonce Knowles
18 Every Girl - Young Money
19 Birthday Sex - Jeremih
20 Never Say Never - Fray


where will these songs be in thirty years?
what about ten?
maybe they'll go the way of these songs (from ten years ago):


1 Genie In A Bottle - Christina Aguilera
2 All Star - Smash Mouth
3 If You Had My Love - Jennifer Lopez
4 Last Kiss - Pearl Jam
5 I Want It That Way - Backstreet Boys
6 Tell Me It's Real - K-ci & Jojo
7 Wild Wild West - Will Smith Featuring Dru Hill & Kool Moe Dee
8 Bailamos - Enriqu
9 Someday - Sugar Ray
10 I Will Remember You - Sarah Mclachlan
11 She's So High - Tal Bachman
12 Bills, Bills, Bills - Destiny's Child
13 Sometimes - Britney Spears
14 Summer Girls - Lfo
15 Smile - Vitamin C Featuring Lady Saw
16 Better Days (and The Bottom..) - Citizen King
17 Out Of My Head - Fastball
18 Beautiful Stranger - Madonna
19 Hey Leonardo (she Likes Me...) - Blessed Union Of Souls
20 It's Not Right But It's Okay - Whitney Houston

the christina aguilera, backstreet boys, and sarah mclachlan songs are still kicking around, but other than that most of these have been lost to the ravages of time. even heavy hitters like britney, madonna, and pearl jam (ugh lukewarm frank wilson cover that was so painful to hear) were past their prime and releasing substandard material. lmao, by the way, at destiny's child complaining about "bills, bills, bills".

I'm not sure what the point being made here is. what gets airplay depends what air you are listening to.
If I have my sirius tuned to classic 80's none of any of the three lists get played so by that definition are all songs on all 3 lists are terrible, badly made rubbish
If I listen to 90's all of the ten year old songs get played and none of the contemporary or seventies music gets played which must mean all of the 90s songs are perfect by airplay getting standard.

What gets palyed depends on where and what you are listening to and everyne thinks the music they grew up with is better than the "Rubbish" kids listen to today.

Geez when I were a lad we used to have to get up before we went to bed, lick road clean with tongue...kids these days don't know they're born etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

 

[fat_fleet]

there was a little toolshed where he made us suffer...

 

[Bristol Posse]

there was a little toolshed where he made us suffer...

Check it out
Comedy was so much better then than it is now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

 

[dodgeaspen]

I'm sure some people inferred that, but the fact remains that an album, such as Thick as a Brick that I mentioned, can never get to #1 in today's world, or top 10, or even top 40. Damn good if it makes it on the 200.

@Todzilla

Ya that's true but even the albums we call the classics like Pet Sounds and SGT Pepper probably wouldn't make it into the top 10 as good as they are. I think they would stand the test of time but the market has changed so much over the years. Elvis said something like music changes about every 6 months and you have to change with it (something to that effect) I think one of The Beatles mentioned that as well in an interview. Even Though I'm not even 40 I'm just stuck in the old school way of things. I guess I can't relate to some of the new sounds. I guess it's to be expected.