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Greg_L
Banned
Sorry, I didn't even read your post. My comments were in response to some other people. My apologies.
Sorry, I didn't even read your post. My comments were in response to some other people. My apologies.
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Martin Maniac
New member
Get used to it. I've posted about this automated software on a few different forums and am getting the same flack on all of them. There's a huge conspiracy against automated software. They will say anything to get you to not use it. I looked into it and found it to be very useful. It's not 100% developed yet, but is worthwhile to try out. It's still a very new technology and may take some time to blossom. Don't expect all your songs to turn out good though, I've gotten mixed results, some come out better than others, but like I've said, when it's good, it's very good.
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Martin Maniac
New member
New technology is a funny thing. I remember many years ago when hand held calculators first came out. We weren't allowed to use them in school, and many people poo-pooed them. It all seems silly now.
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Greg_L
Banned
Not the same. You still had to know basic principles of math to use one. But to that point, people have steadily gotten dumber as technology progresses. It's weird. The people that create technology are geniuses. The people that use it are...not so much.
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RFR
Well-known member
And you protest and vehemently defend in every thread on this subject.
For myself prior to this post, my only post in this thread was humor.
As to the mastering programs I have no idea if they are good or not. They may be, I don't know.
But, I would rather learn the skills involved with mastering myself rather than trust a program. That or send my stuff to a bonafide mastering engineer. (Which I have)
But then again, that's part of my philosophy in life. Either learn how to do it or take it to a professional.
Im not looking for any easy way out.....but thats just me.
I'm not going to criticize anyone for how they want to approach things. Each to their own.
I do personally think you could lighten up on this subject. What, like two or three threads on this subject have been closed now?
I dare say it's your attitude and responses, not the original subject matter.
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Martin Maniac
New member
Sorry but automated mastering software is a tool that I have in my audio toolbox. I have two different programs and each one has it's benefits.
I remember when the only EQ adjustment we had was a single tone control. Are you saying modern day EQ's are bad ??
I remember when the only EQ adjustment we had was a single tone control. Are you saying modern day EQ's are bad ??
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Greg_L
Banned
Nope. You're desperately going to extremes here. Calculators? Wax cylinders? Let's try to keep this in perspective. There's a huge difference between using an EQ and having some nameless faceless algorithm do your "mastering" for you. If you enjoy it, knock yourself out. I'm not trying to talk you out of it. Just don't act like you're somehow enlightened and we're crazy for seeing the very real flaws in it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Funny that you should bring up calculators....because that's exactly what auto-mastering is...just a calculator, devoid of emotions, of hearing, of feeling the music. It just calculates based on "curves".
Why even bother to use it.
Like someone said awhile ago on one of the other threads...just hype the low-end and the high-end (the so-called "smile" EQ curve), and then crunch it and pump up the level.
That's it...you can do that with the most basic software found in your DAW if that's all it means to you.
And all that talk of money...who are you kidding?
You think that using auto-mastering will help you with your bottom line in iTunes sales?
No one is making any real money around here...including the majority of people on iTunes.
So then why not at least put your self 100% into your music, instead of leaving some of it for a calculator to finish for you?
For me...it's all about the journey, and a big part of that is learning the tools and how to use them to get what I want.
If anything more comes, that's great, but I don't want to miss or avoid any part of the production process for any reason.
Hell...I just spent a chunk of $$$, time and effort to buy and then overhaul and refurbish my "new" console.
Some people would say, what a waste of time and money, when I could have taken the easy way and just used the computer for everything...but, then I would have missed out on that experience.
Not saying everyone should run out and buy a vintage console to refurbish...just saying, don't give up anything too quickly if you don't have to just because technology gave you a new calculator to use in place of your brain, ears, and artistic perception.
The real funny thing here is that those who don't use the auto-mastering calculators are the ones who will not miss out on anything. So it's not some "conspiracy"...because we won't lose anything because of its use by others.
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RFR
Well-known member
With regards to the sound quality, it doesn't matter. At all.
Time and time again its been said by well known producers and engineers that the technical perfection of the music doesn't matter. (To the record buying public)
It's the song, it's the song, it's the song.
So pro mastered, program mastered, not mastered, stereo, mono......who cares.
If the objective is to economically produce, distribute and sell your music, by all means, use whatever you have at your disposal.
Its all about the tune.
Time and time again its been said by well known producers and engineers that the technical perfection of the music doesn't matter. (To the record buying public)
It's the song, it's the song, it's the song.
So pro mastered, program mastered, not mastered, stereo, mono......who cares.
If the objective is to economically produce, distribute and sell your music, by all means, use whatever you have at your disposal.
Its all about the tune.
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Martin Maniac
New member
Well on a few of my tunes, the automated software made decisions for me, that I didn't think of doing myself, as an example, I had one song that had a very heavy synth bass line on it, so heavy it would distort the speakers when played. For the life of me, I couldn't get rid of that distortion. Once I ran the song thru the automated system, the synth bass was tuned down and under control. The distortion I was hearing before was now gone, and the tune was then good enough for iTunes, where as before that distortion was very distracting. Somehow, either thru EQ'ing or Multi-Band compressing, the software eliminated the distortion, by cutting the bass down, without effecting the rest of the song. It just cut it down a little bit, but it was enough to make the song enjoyable to listen to. Believe me, If I didn't like what the software does, I'd definitely say so and certainly wouldn't defend it. But I liked what it did. That's my experience with it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah...if one looks at it that way, where cheap and quick is critical, then anything goes.
I certainly have always been for using all the tools at my disposal. It's not about that...it's about the point where we, the so-called artists, step back and let the tools make the decisions...that's what I don't see any value in...
...and as I said, for me, the journey is the best part, and not so much about getting to the end.
I like to know that I can do something, or at least try and try with as much effort as I can before I give up and move on or remove myself from the equation.
Digital technology is great...but it's getting to the point where it's allowing artists to remove themselves from the equation...
...and I don't see much value in that.
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Martin Maniac
New member
On another song, I ran it thru and it brought out the highs very nicely. The song is an orchestral piece, and the automated software took a bland sounding recording and made it sound exciting and alive, and very real. I've tried mixing it to put a finalized sound to it before, but my end product didn't compare to what the automated software did. It really put a nice touch to it.
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Greg_L
Banned
This ^^^^
The general attitude of this site has gone from Home Recording to Home Just Get It Done.
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Martin Maniac
New member
Digital technology can be great. I have sound samples that allow me to put together orchestral pieces that I could never do otherwise. I can't afford to hire an orchestra, and I don't have the London Symphony available to me, but thru the use of high quality sound samples, I can create great sounding pieces. Digital technology also gives me great recording facilities without having to spring for an expensive console, or fully equipped recording studio. Seriously, what's the big difference between automated software and a bunch of VST plug-ins ?? I push a couple of buttons and my recording software automatically records whatever I want. What's the big deal about mastering software ?? I use Ivory II piano samples because I can't afford a Steinway Concert Grand, but I can make recordings that sound just like one. I like new technology.
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Greg_L
Banned
No one disputes that. We all use technology to varying degrees. None of us are Phil Spector using giant orchestras and echo chambers...and murdering women.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
All of that you do with your ears, your feelings, your decisions and choices...to some degree.
Auto-mastering removes you from the equation...100%.
They're close to mass-marketing self-driving cars. They will be fine for just getting you from point A to B.
Now imagine one day, race care drivers just sitting there and letting the car win the race without their involvement.
Technology is great...but when something is supposed to be about a person's skill and creativity...then that's the line.
You don't seem to get that...but it's OK, other people do.
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RFR
Well-known member
Good for you.
On the technology argument, the aspect of taking the 'human touch' out of it, you were talking about wax, car assy lines calculators, etc.....
Technology is a double edged sword. It can benefit and it can hurt.
There are those that can see the downside and are opposed to that.
We as a people are rapidly losing skills.
It carries over to all walks of life, but I'll just stick to music
Autotune = less people learning how to sing.
EZ drummer = less people learning how to drum, tune drums, mic drums, work with a drummer, etc.
Amp sims = less learning how to get a good guitar sound, or even getting a unique 'new' guitar sound, learning how gain structure of an amp translates to 'tape' , learning how to set up mics, learning different rooms, etc.
Daws = less learning how to play a song all the way through (more just playing one bar and copy and paste)
Less learning how to play with other real musicians in real time, face to face, playing off each other, feeding each other, and coming uo with something greater than what one person could accomplish alone.
This leads into less bands, less live performances, and being a musician in isolation.
One may have tunes in place all over the internet, but that's not much different than putting up kitten pics on your facebook page.
No one cares. Period.
A musician in this modern technology driven world is forced and more in isolation, devoid of the fruits of actually being a 'real musician'.
Sure, there are online collaborations, but with people you've never met or never will.
Thats not the same as being in a room jamming, or on a stage, or in a studio with other musicians.
As tecnology progresses, we'll go more and more to the "one man band in a box"; scenario.
The 'bedroom guitar wizard' who has never, ever been in a band, or on stage, now becomes the 'bedroom band'.
Oh, but online...the big man, the closet 'rock star."Look at me!. I put out an album!"
Yup, you did. A solo album that no one will hear, buy, care about, and chances are, won't even know your album exists.
And thats sad. Thats the stuff called "legend in one's own mind"
All this tecnology deprives modern day musicians of invaluable skills that can only be learned in the real world. That real life interaction, collaboration, and cordination, with real people. Magic happens in the real world.
Sterility happens in the virtual world.
I'm not saying there isn't a lot of good stuff being done under the umbrella of modern technology. But I do firmly believe all the great stuff happens with people with vision, creativity and skill. And technology helps people lose skills. Look at all the people that can't even write by hand since keyboard technology has become common.
Hahaha,
Sorry for the long winded dissertation.
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Martin Maniac
New member
I took a class in music production at the local community college years ago. My instructor was a mixing engineer for Pat Metheny. He would also master the recordings, and get them ready for cd masters. He explained he would go over and over a song for about a month before he would release it. It would take him about a year to do a whole album. I thought he was nuts, but after hearing his final mixes, I was very impressed.
I don't have that much time. So automated mastering software works for me.
I don't have that much time. So automated mastering software works for me.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Letting automatic software do your mastering is like outsourcing your experience of life.
Might as well let software write the song for you, perform it and mix it as well. Then pay a service to send bots to pump up your plays. We now have the capacity to completely remove humans from the whole process and make it so much more efficient.
Hear the first-ever full pop song composed by artificial intelligence
Seriously, if you have that much trouble mastering your own mixes adequately you haven't learned to mix. When I get a mix right I need to do little more than slap a decent mastering limiter on it. But whatever, if automatic mastering works for you that's fine too.
Might as well let software write the song for you, perform it and mix it as well. Then pay a service to send bots to pump up your plays. We now have the capacity to completely remove humans from the whole process and make it so much more efficient.
Hear the first-ever full pop song composed by artificial intelligence
Seriously, if you have that much trouble mastering your own mixes adequately you haven't learned to mix. When I get a mix right I need to do little more than slap a decent mastering limiter on it. But whatever, if automatic mastering works for you that's fine too.