Audio "placement"

[joenoreason]

I am looking for tips on how to displace each track in my songs. I know panning obviously pans certain channels, but when I listen to certain tracks, i can close my eyes and pretty much visualize where the instrument would be as if it was playing on a stage in front of me.

I do understand that mastering the track has a lot to do with this as well, but what i am talking about is a little different.

What i am talking about is more precise placement. What I want is on some tracks i hear the vocals sound like the guy is actually in front of me and not in the center of my head, and to me it makes the vocals more clear, and seperated. I put the vocal in the center, or even setting the vocal track as mono, but no luck. It still sounds like its coming from the center of my head as does most of the song.

I've heard this effect used on snare drums as well and it sounds great, yet i cant duplicate it.

Is there a plug-in out that i can purchase that does a good job of virtually placing each tracks in different locations of the sound stage? If not, can someone tell me what i might be doing wrong?

Thanks,
Gio

 

[The Flame]

hey

ya man i am not that sure, but i think you might be talking about surround panning? i know some programs like the one i have, cubase le has this front and rear pan. this of course will only work on a surround sound system but i guess the "back" and "front" and more visable. also dude, the standard way to create depth is with volumes. if you want vocals closer bring em out, move the instruments back towards the back curtains of the "mental stage" by lowering their volumes. so far its worked for me. A good album to hear some of that stuff is Blackwater park by Opeth, depth is a big issue in their production. keep workin on it man, you'll get it.
Flame

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

A big part of what you're talking about has to do with the quality of the signal chain, especially in the A/D converters (though quality of microphone/preamp combo and tracking recorder on the analog side can play a part as well.) Even futher into the digital domain, in the synching of all digital components to a master digital clock device. Removal or miminizing of digital jitter and sample misalignment though the best digital conversion and control can go a huge way to "tighting up" the sound of a track and to removing a build-up of otherwise minor phasing issues which can (some hate this term, but I dare them to find a better one ) "smear" locality on the sound stage.

Other than throwing $10K into a signal chain that includes the best mics teamed with great preamps going into a top shelf converter that is clock-synched with your digital recorder, the best you can do is work to get down the finest, cleanest tracking techniques your current gear will allow. The cleaner and better the tracking, the closer you'll come to such 3-D imaging.

G.

 

[Massive Master]

Don't forget depth -

One of the best ways to make something sound like it's five feet away is to mic it from five feet away.

 

[NYMorningstar]

Don't forget depth -

One of the best ways to make something sound like it's five feet away is to mic it from five feet away.

That makes way to much sense
And what about reverb? That will help with distance.
Hey is this type getting smaller?
No man, I'm just getting further and further away

 

[jndietz]

To achieve what you are talking about, I would do what was already posted:

Bring the vocals out and put the guitar amplifiers and drums "back there". Putting a small (SMALL!) bit of reverb on there will help, too. Also, don't forget that as long as you know your equipment well, you won't need to buy anything new to accomodate this. It's not about WHAT you have, it's how you use it!

 

[killmachine]

yeah I second what everyone already said, I think from an amature** standpoint most people tend to overlook distance micing far to much and then spend a bunch of time trying to get it later.

I used to go for this giant huge drum sound. The more I got into it I started thinking, "hey drums don't sound like your behing them when you watch a band play". I still go pretty wide with them but I've stopped jacking them up in the mix.

Different amounts of reverb on different things can help as well.

Check out some Isis records for good spacial,

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Maybe it's just me that's misintepreting his post (wouldn't be the first time ) but when I read

on some tracks i hear the vocals sound like the guy is actually in front of me and not in the center of my head,

I don't think he's asking about the usual "depth in the mix" issues as much as he's asking about the actual 3D spacial imaging that can happen on occasion in the best-handled mixes where the different instruments or vocals seem to jump outside the speakers and populate the space surrounding them. This is why I played the digital phase card in my first reply.

Hopefully he'll come back and tell me I'm sucking too much helium .

G.

 

[joenoreason]

Maybe it's just me that's misintepreting his post (wouldn't be the first time ) but when I read I don't think he's asking about the usual "depth in the mix" issues as much as he's asking about the actual 3D spacial imaging that can happen on occasion in the best-handled mixes where the different instruments or vocals seem to jump outside the speakers and populate the space surrounding them. This is why I played the digital phase card in my first reply.

Hopefully he'll come back and tell me I'm sucking too much helium .

G.

This is in fact exactly what i am talking about. I do know mostly everything that was suggested, and i thank everyone for suggesting, but Glen hit the hammer on the head with it. I did a crappy job explaining what i was talking about, and that was my fault.