<Attention> Photos of a Vocal Booth im building (Your Advice Needed)

[Smooth Poetic]

Hi every one i have been checking out this message board for a while and reckon there is some great information on some post's . Anyways im Smooth Poetic and im an up and coming Emcee/(learning) Producer from Sydney, Australia.

The reason why i need you help is that i am building a vocal/recording booth in my garage out back and need to know if im moving in the right direction....there has been heaps of reasearch put into this project so i am just following my instinct or my jedi force.

here is the info :-

Room Size : 264 x 172 (2.6 x 172 metres)

Windows : There is a split beam or stud cause its need for extra support.....Window 1 : 89 x 110 and Window 2 : 79 x 110

Framing is on the corner wall is hard wood studs and the other small wall and window area is metal studs

There is thick special sound proofing insulation in the walls. its called sound screen i think ?...damn the **** was expensive.

The actual walls are 1.5 cm thick MDF or chipboard panels..what ever you call it.

here's a couple of photos to get an idea:

The Insulation

now what i was also worried about was that are the window sections to big ?
there gonna be done with lamnated glass with the inside window on an angel facing down with foam in between the gap

Plus what im gonna be adding to the walls is gyprock or sheet rock on top of the walls with a 1 cm gap inside for sound to be traped(small air space).The Booth will then be finished off with acoustic foam covering the walls and ceiling.

Well i guess thats about it for about now....your knowlegde and advice will be much apriciated.

Peace

Smooth Poetic

 

[Smooth Poetic]

Come on some one help me out here.

 

[Smooth Poetic]

hello is anyone there ?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Howdy Smooth, welcome to the board. Since you are an Aussie, go here. This is John Sayers site. He is based there too. You can get some real answers at his site.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=f8f186822f24bb012e5d73978154c7ca

Here too.

http://searcht.netscape.com/ns/boom...Test=1&remove_url=http://www.johnlsayers.com/

fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello smoothie, thought I'd go ahead and try to help you since you already posted here. Let me point out some things.

now what i was also worried about was that are the window sections to big ?

Size is not the issue. Sound transmission loss is. Here is the deal. You have a wall assembly that is not the best by any means. First, most studio/control room iso walls are built as a DOUBLE WALL TWO LEAF ASSEMBLY. What this does is DECOUPLE the vocal booth leaf from the control room leaf. From the look of the pictures you have a single wall, two leaf assembly with a thin limp mass layer integral to one leaf. Your leaves, even though MDF, are only 1.5cm (1/2"), which is not very much mass. I don't put much value in limp mass products, especially in single wall assemblys, even though they may add a few points of STC rating. Which is exactly my point here. Studio designers use RATED assemblies, in order to MATCH penetration assemblies within the wall assemblies. These are doors and windows. How can anyone specify a cost effective glass assembly to use if the actuall wall is NOT a TESTED and rated assembly, as you may specify a glass assembly that is far above or far below the performance level of the adjacent wall.(weak link syndrome)Since your wall is not a high STC isolation rated wall, I wouldn't go to extremes with your glass either as the assembly as a whole MAY suffer "weak link" syndrome. However, since you DON"T have a rated wall, I couldn't tell which glass would meet the performance of it. I can tell you this.

Plus what im gonna be adding to the walls is gyprock or sheet rock on top of the walls with a 1 cm gap inside for sound to be traped(small air space).The Booth will then be finished off with acoustic foam covering the walls and ceiling.

I don't know how you plan on making this 1cm gap, but do NOT DO THAT if this gap is between one layer of drywall and the MDF. This creates a TRIPLE LEAF senario, which can actually make things worse. UNLESS you drill a WHOLE BUNCH of 3cm holes in the MDF leaf that is adjacent to the additional drywall, which actually negates the use of the MDF. Which also doesn't make sense to gain a 1cm gap. The point here is to create a MASS AIR MASS assembly, NOT a MASS AIR MASS AIR MASS assembly.

Personally I would beef up each side of this COMPLETE wall with 2 additional layers of 5/8" drywall, then use one leaf of 3/8" glass, and another leaf of 1/2" seperated as far as you can make them within the confines of a single wall assembly. I know this is just a vocal booth, so SPL's won't approach that of drums or amps, but even vocals can produce amazing levels. And this says nothing of the other walls, ceilings and floors, which can structurally transmit vibrations REGARDLESS of the mass of the iso wall. That is the REAL problem.

fitZ

 

[Smooth Poetic]

This is all a bit confusing to me cause i am new to this so i dont really understrand about these ratings and that jargon.

Your a champion Rick...man you really know your stuff.

So what i gathered from your post is that i need to make the walls more thick right ? from what you said it looks like that i wont have the air space instead i will just place the gypock directly on the wall. There is a option of a 13mm thick gyprock or 10mm thick gyprock, these are all tested and are qaulity products (well that waht the cutomer service dude told me.) Also where you saying that i should put 2 peices of gyprock on top on each other is that what you consider as drywall ?

here is the link of the gyprock i am thinking about using :
http://www.plastamasta.com.au/PlasterBoard_Display.asp?ProductID=5

hhhmmmm ?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello Smoothie...(saw your post at Johns site ) I thought maybe someone would tell you I was full of shit!! Actually, I must confess.

"DISCLAIMER": I AM NOT AN EXPERT.........or even experienced. I just read a lot. Ha!
so, that being said....

So what i gathered from your post is that i need to make the walls more thick right

Well let me ask you a question first. What did you mean by "split beam or stud", as there is a difference between a beam and a stud. A beam is a horizontal support, like above the windows. A stud is vertical. This really baffled me.

After I looked again at your pictures, it was a little confusing. But, from what it LOOKS LIKE, you have a STANDARD stud wall, with part of it WOOD STUDS, and part of it METAL STUDS, correct? And this standard wall (see the SECOND picture below) assembly has windows framed into it just like standard residential construction, correct? So where is the "split"?
On one face of this wall you have fastened ONE layer of MDF(1/2"), correct?
And on the opposite face you have a layer of LIMP MASS, and then a layer of MDF over that, is that correct? And the wall cavities, are filled with insulation(it looks like rockwool)correct?

IF so, then what you have is a SINGLE TWO LEAF WALL ASSEMBLY. And this is NOT very good for isolation. However, that is in the ear of the beholder. One mans "good enough" is another mans "sucks" So, in that regard, its hard to say what is acceptable to you. Personally, I think you will clearly hear a loud singer through the wall. And since this wall is already built and sheithed, I told you to ADD MASS to each LEAF to increase sound transmission loss. Had you asked about this BEFORE you built it I would have suggested a DOUBLE WALL TWO LEAF Assembly, OR at least the vocal booth sheithing DECOUPLED by use of Resiliant Channel, and 2 layers of drywall. And let me clear up the term "drywall". Drywall is actually a generic term for "gypsum wall board". It is chalky white gypsum composite that is mixed to a mud like consistancy and then compressed between two layers of thick paper or cardboard. It usually has a fire resistant rating. That is why it is used world wide for cheap wall construction. But for studios, it is also used in multiple layers because it has the best MASS/THICKNESS/COST/INSTALLATION ratio of any similar product. Hence my suggestion of adding 2 layers to each side of your wall. And then, my closest guess for glass to match an approximate rating of similar walls, would be what I told you as far as glass thickness. What this gives you is a complete SINGLE WALL TWO LEAF assembly with enough mass to what "I" think will improve your isolation enough for a vocal booth. However, that is my OPINION only. Thats why TESTS and RATINGS exist. Otherwise EVERYONE would be guessing. And when designers and architects have to specify walls that meet FIRE and SOUND criteria that is set forth in Uniform Building Codes, they KNOW that they are meeting this criteria. Understand?

Ok, as far as the plasterboard is concerned, yes, that is drywall. ONE LAYER is drywall. But for more mass, you need 2 layers. It is STILL drywall. And by the way, it looks to me like the ACOUSICONTROL has more mass per cubic meter than the other stuff. But it is probably MORE expensive, but I don't know. Frankly, I would use plain old plasterboard that is used in residential construction, as it is STILL MASS, but probably cheaper. Try to use the thickest you can get (16mm?) Well, I'm out of time, but give me till tomorrow and I will post a drawing of the window/sill/glass/bedding/seal details. Remember though, without knowing the details of the other walls/ceiling/ floor/framing/connections, this MAY not improve it as it would if these other assemblies were DECOUPLED. Since they are NOT, no telling what they will transmit structurally. Which btw, is the point of DECOUPLING!
Hope this helps. Till then, later.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Here are some rated wall illustrations. STC stands for SOUND TRANSMISSION CLASS. This is a rating based of the frequency band of speech, and doesn't tell you much when it comes to music because of LOW FREQUENCY content. The lower the frequency, the less an assembly can contain it. And if you use a TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE LEAF, then the worse it gets. Your wall should be a little lower than STC36, although that is really hard to say. Everything has a bearing on this. Caulking, flanking, structural transmission through the floor etc. Notice the jump from STC40 to STC 57 when you REMOVE drywall from a double wall QUADRUPLE LEAF assembly!!! That is because of .....well, this will explain TONS more than I can. Remember, sound transmission is NOT intuitive. In fact, it will baffle your best intentions sometimes.
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co.uk/tloss.htm