at what point do you call yourself an Audio Engineer?

After this great advice on tequilla and rum, my eyes graduated from stereo to quad which in turn inspired me to edit my newbie label...
 
not sure if the original topic is even alive anymore but i figured i'd chime in cuz i've thought of this many times.

I'm only 18 and I don't have any professional education in audio engineering (yet).

I made business cards that say I'm an engineer and a producer on them.

My dad saw one and said "it might as well say adam marshall: astronaut"

I don't know...I make music. I can record your music in a somewhat professional way and produce some pretty decent final products.

I'd say I'm an audio engineer.

Adam
 
miroslav said:
(I understood that you were talking about client's expectations)

My point is...every engineer has a style and approach...they don't just twist knobs to some scientific points.
So...one client LOVES the mix you did...but then another client doesn't and therefore thinks you're not a good audio engineer.
Who is right?

That's my point...it's about 80% subjective for most clients....meanwhile, you as the audio engineer KNOW your skills and have all the necessary abilities of an audio engineer.
It's not like being a mechanical/civil/electronic/etc engineer...where it IS mostly about the science.
So the original question is rather hard to answer as clearly is it would be for those cases.

Audio engineering is art as much as it is science...though the end results are usually judged purely from an artistic perspective.
You can be a solid audio engineer from a scientific perspective and still come across as "not that good" to some clients based on the product.
It's just not all that cut and dried.

Not to mention...that the interpretation of your audio skills is DIRECTLY linked to the quality of the songs and talent..and you have NO control over that!!!
Click to expand...

If an engineer is coming up with awesome mixes that blow away the talent, then he/she is a producer. In the real world of making a commercial record it is the producer that makes all the decisions. The engineer simply twists knobs at a minimum and could go further if the producer allows.

The #1 problem with "pro" studio experiences being bad is the fact that artists with no experience and little $$$ have no producer and no vision of how a project will end up. The prime villian here is always the engineer and hence the studio. All those stories of how a pro studio messed up a project but a home studio guy made a much better recording etc.

Engineers do not make decisions or creative input unless they are allowed to, or are dual role with producer.
 
MCI2424 said:
The #1 problem with "pro" studio experiences being bad is the fact that artists with no experience and little $$$ have no producer and no vision of how a project will end up. The prime villian here is always the engineer and hence the studio. All those stories of how a pro studio messed up a project but a home studio guy made a much better recording etc.

Engineers do not make decisions or creative input unless they are allowed to, or are dual role with producer.
Click to expand...
Exactly right - and very important.

The #1 question I always ask when mixing someone's stuff at my home studio is, "Who's the producer?" Nine times out of ten the closest thing I get to a reply is for them to look like a deer caught in the headlights. This is an immediate indicator of trouble to me, because getting a mix that everyone will like (unless it's a solo artist) is next to impossible, and since no one is taking the lead in that regard, there's no one person to whom the rest must defer.

This also means that there's no one I can work with in actually creating the mix they want, This means either my having to take a complete guess as to what they'll want, which is never going to satisfy them the first (or usually second) time around, or having to try to mix with the entire band breathing over my shoulder, with is a guaranteed recipe for little more than ulcers and alcoholism. So, question #1 is, "Who's producing?", and I won't start the mix unless or until they pick one person with whom I can work or leave the production decisions up to me (or the best, a combo of the two).

Most "pro" studios just figure that's none of their business; either the client has their production shit together or they don't, but either way the studio will get their money for doing the engineering. If the client doesn't like the result, they figure that's the client's fault for not having their production act together and hitting the studio prematurely.

I'd wager a bet that this is the source of 90% of most newb clients problems with bad "pro" studio experiences.

G.
 
MCI2424 said:
Engineers do not make decisions or creative input unless they are allowed to, or are dual role with producer.
Click to expand...

In a perfect world...maybe they shouldn't, though in a typcial project studio setting where often newbies are the customers...the engineer really can't just turn the knobs quietly and be disconnected from the production.
And then there are some guys that have been somehow "funded" to a point of almost world-class digs...but their actual engineering experiences may be thin and short-lived. Most newbies will then walk in and go WOW...and expect a world-class product.
And I'm not now just defending the unprepared newbies...but a real "pro" is able to tell right-off if they are ready to record, like Glen points out....so the other question is, should that other type of "pro" go ahead and still run the clock if he/she knows they are NOT ready to record?

I think some do...and then of course, the world-class digs only go so far to help the "product"...and the newbies walk away blaming the engineer.

I received my new Tape Op magazine this weekend, and there are some really great articles this month. They have a lengthy Bruce Botnick (recording engineer for most of the Doors sessions) interview. and he goes on to say how all the great rooms have all but died off thanks to the home/project studio…so those great sounds are harder come by even though just about everyone has a “studio” these days.
There are some other great comments about audio engineering…and a couple of other good interviews with veteran audio engineers (I haven’t read through all of them yet).
 
Judging by most of the replies this may not sit too well with most in this thread, but, my answer is...
When I'm in the chair, the mics are plugged in, placed, and people are waiting to play instruments in front of them, the red light is on and I say "We're rollin" ;)
Thanks,
Scott.
 
Last edited:
I agree...

There are many levels for everything.

You have the world-class surgeon...and then you have the clinic doctor.
Both are physicians.

I think AFA the audio engineer question (and a lot of other stuff)...IMO...it's maybe more about the intent and focus behind the person, than just how well he turns the knobs or how much $$$ he makes doing it.
Though turning the knobs really well and making good $$$ for it only goes to underscore your intent and focus!!! :D
 
miroslav said:
I agree...

There are many levels for everything.

You have the world-class surgeon...and then you have the clinic doctor.
Both are physicians.

I think AFA the audio engineer question (and a lot of other stuff)...IMO...it's maybe more about the intent and focus behind the person, than just how well he turns the knobs or how much $$$ he makes doing it.
Though turning the knobs really well and making good $$$ for it only goes to underscore your intent and focus!!! :D
Click to expand...

I really like this POV. :)

Thanks,
Scott.
 
miroslav said:
I agree...

There are many levels for everything.

You have the world-class surgeon...and then you have the clinic doctor.
Both are physicians.

I think AFA the audio engineer question (and a lot of other stuff)...IMO...it's maybe more about the intent and focus behind the person, than just how well he turns the knobs or how much $$$ he makes doing it.
Though turning the knobs really well and making good $$$ for it only goes to underscore your intent and focus!!! :D
Click to expand...

actually a surgeon is not a physician...the term only applies to medical doctors, surgeons are not actually involved in medicine so the title is not applied to them


carry on :)
 
kcearl said:
actually a surgeon is not a physician...the term only applies to medical doctors, surgeons are not actually involved in medicine so the title is not applied to them
Click to expand...



Splitting hairs?

;) :D

OK...you're being very technical, but I think you get my point though!

They both have MD after their names! :p
 
For me personally, I have been involved in music for the past 13 years almost. 11 of those years putting together my home studio (currently about $30,000 worth of equip.) and producing, recording, mixing and mastering music. Im not exactly sure on how many tracks I have actually recorded but its well over 1000. I dont know it all, I dont claim to as we can and do always learn new things everyday. But I do have a wealth of knowledge about music engineering that I have learned all on my own. I have a really good reputation in my area for my sound and many people come to me to record, mix and master their tracks... put all of this together and people call me/I call myself a producer/engineer :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top