Arguing with myself: effects pedals vs. mult-ieffect.

[Mr. C]

I currently have a BOSS ME 50 that I've been using for quite awhile now and have always debated whether or not to go to individual pedals. As far as that is concerned I have a DOD chorus pedal (like it), Keeley DS-1 (love it) and a MXR 10 band eq (not using it effectively or don't see the need for it). On the ME 50 I pretty much just use the DS-1 setting, the chorus, the delay (sometimes) and the wah pedal. Also use the compressor limiter. Don't need the reverb because I like my amp's reverb (C-30). So I think just buying a delay, wah, and compressor would be all I would need to replace the ME-50. There are other settings I use once in a blue moon, but not regulary. So it is my decision, but maybe some of you have an opinion or two?

 

[GONZO-X]

so it all depends on how you use what you got.

if you're using a multi fx pedal to do covers, then why not?

if you're really getting into defining YOUR own personal sound, IMHO you can only do this with individual pedals, and it takes a long time of demo'ing everything available, to find those pedals.


i've been playing and gigging since 1976.

i've used a lot of pedals.
i've also had rack mount gear, and multi fx pedals and midi switchers and all that crap.


here's my current pedalboard, with one addition not in the photo: a clean boost, a Fulltone Fatboost III.

my sound is more dialed in now, than it ever has been, BECAUSE i found specific 'tools' to use for specific things i wanted.

 

[c7sus]

Individual ANALOG pedals over digital multi-pedals.

 

[Mr. C]

Nice board Gonzo. I'm thinking of something simple like you have. I do play mostly covers but don't try to dial in the correct tone for each song. That was sort of my plan at first, but I just don't have the patience to make up tons of different patches so that part of the ME-50 just isn't getting used.
By the way, how do you like the Decimator? That's something I've been looking into lately.

 

[stevieb]

Individual ANALOG pedals over digital multi-pedals.

All good and fine, but your reply is sparse to the point of being useless. All you are doing is stating your opinion- unproven and unsupported. It might not be so bad, if you at least presented it as your OPINION, rather than a declarative statement.

I, too, have been playing for decades, but never used pedals for most of that time. About 15 years ago, I decided to delve into pedals, but had no idea what I might want. I bought a multi-pedal (happened to be a Digitech RP-7,) and went to town. I found I used the same few effects and patches, most of the effects were of little interest to me most of the time, and the patches seem to be designed for kiddies who just want to make noise- I only found a few that were worth a damn.

Nonetheless, the multi-unit was very useful. It has served me well in these ways:

1. Helped me determine what effects I wanted in my "signature" sound/tone. For instance, it allowed me to re-discover tremolo (which I am fruit for,) I realized chorus is over-rated (to me, at least, but I do use it occasionally,) Flange is just stupid, and ring-modulators should all be shot on sight. So, I got a few single that give me what I like, and I am done.

2. For covers, a multi is probably best. You can drive yourself nuts trying to duplicate the effects used by just ONE guitar-god (who are mortal, just like the rest of us,) never mind several- a multi gets you close enough for covers. Posers lean on their effects- real guitarist learn how to play guitar.

3. I tweaked about 4 or 5 patches on my multi, set them to the first 5 user patches, and that's all I ever use the thing for, much any more. I only use it some of the time, even with those settings. Learned what works for me, that's all I need.

Still, I will probably never sell mine. It's so "obsolete" now, it has little market value. The makers of multi's (and everything else) need to keep selling "new" stuff, so they add dubious features that make buyers go "Wow!" but probably rarely if ever get used. I'll stick with what works.

Actually, I have come almost full-circle- I favor amps with built-in tremolo and reverb (vintage Fender Deluxe Reverb is my #1,) and the only pedals I put on the floor are the amp's switch pedal and a wah. I much prefer power-tube overdrive, so an attenuator sits on top of my amp. I used to include a stomp box tuner, but I even usually leave it at home, as I can use my other tuners more easily on my acoustics and basses (going with a Intili-touch tuner these days.) I agree with you about the EQ- I have one, never use it, either. EQ's are to CORRECT something- either feedback in the room, or a rig's tone that does not sit well in your ear. The "right" guitar and amp (right for YOU) should not need "fixing." If it does, you have not found "your" rig, yet.

One of my buddies has recently changed from a Pod to 2 or 3 pedals- he wraps them up in a towel for transport. We joke that he doesn't need a pedal board- his "pedal towel" seems to work just fine!

Oh, and guys who use huge pedal boards are just COMPENSATING. And I don't mean for the wrong amp!

 

[c7sus]

An "opinion or two" is what the op asked for. It should be pretty damned obvious it's my OPINION.

WTF are you, anyways???

The guy said he was looking for a wah and a comp and a delay.

I didn't say "Hey, go out and get a Moog MF-104SD or a Fulltone TTE and a 4-knob Keeley and a Picture Wah."

Those kind of statements would be declarative.

By your own post you admitted you ditched the digital stuff.

 

[ranjam]

Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. The ME-50 is relatively inexpensive, has very usable sounds, and takes little set up and maintenance to get going. And you only need a little 'real estate' on the ground to use it. However, when it goes down, likely no one will be able to fix it, or at least fix it economically. Also, you can spend hours finding patches you like, and still not be quite 100% happy with each and every effect.
Individual pedals means you can find 'that sound' in each pedal of whatever brand you fancy, and it's not likely they will all go down at once. However, they take up more room on stage, and all those patch cables means one can screw up, and you take hours finding which one is the culprit. You may chase ground loops, hum, noises, and whatnot. And the $300 you spent on the ME-50 will only buy at best 'a couple' of decent individual pedals. Oh, and an EQ can be useful as an overall boost, a notch filter, or just a 'treble boost' for solos. Any pedal can be useful, so don't worry about the Luddites who wonder why your tone needs 'fixing'. They won't be at your shows anyway.
It's up to you on how fussy you are about your tone. If this is just for your 'bar band', either will do. You shouldn't be trying to impress the waitress that you spent $500 or $600 on a Klon. Who cares? Your goal is to make music that people get drunk, dance, and try to get laid to. If you're recording the next Dark Side Of The Moon, and you are more fussy than Eric Johnson about tone, go with the individual pedals that have 'that tone'. It'll cost you, but the Billboard numbers will justify walking to work and only eating three times a week to support your craft.

 

[c7sus]

I got my KLON from Bill Finnegan. It was worth every dime.

 

[Villain S Deeds]

I've been using a Digitech RP300 for about 7 years now, and I have a love/hate relationship with it. I love that it has more effects and amp models than I'll ever care to use. At the same time, so of the effects are rather cheesy, and I've occasionally heard better ones in individual stomp boxes.

I suppose the best thing about it is that it only cost me 1/4 oz. of weed.

 

[ocnor]

Here's my current pedalboard. I've got analog pedals and digital rack effects but I never use them anymore. I even removed the spring reverb tank from my amp. My amp gets such a kick ass dry tone that I just don't feel the need to use all of those pedals and crap anymore. It's funny because I used to be an effects junkie.

 

[tonesponge]

My experience is that one trick ponies always do the best tricks. When people try to cram a lot of stuff into one unit, compromises inevitably get made.

There is also the factor of avoiding putting all of your eggs in one basket. If you have one unit that does everything, then when it breaks, everyhting goes in the shop at once, or you buy a new one and have to reprogram all of your presets. Not convenient right before or during a gig. But if you have a bunch of single purpose pedals, then if one breaks, you still ahve all the others avaialable, and it's plug and play to buy a new one and plug it in.

I tend to prefer analog gear at every turn, but some effects, like a clean digital delay or a looper, really have to be digital. There's a lot to be said for having both an analog and a digital delay on your board, but if the nature of the effect makes it a choice between one or the other, I always go analog.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Each has their own advantages and disadvantages ....... It's up to you on how fussy you are about your tone.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^

The ME 50 is a decent multi ...... it'll get the job done.
Individual pedals will usually sound better but it's all about how picky you want to get.
I've got a grand in my pedalboard and it's not even particularly expensive stuff ..... a couple of Fulltone pedals ..... couple of VooDoo Lab pedals ....... a Delay and the unbiquitous Tube Screamer. Nothing very exotic there but still, 100-200 buck a pedal adds up quick.

If YOU want or need the sound to be 'just right' so you can enjoy playing more then go with the seperates ..... if you're satisfied with the ME-50 then I wouldn't sweat it.

I bought a multi-pedal (happened to be a Digitech RP-7,) and went to town. Still, I will probably never sell mine. It's so "obsolete" now, it has little market value. The makers of multi's (and everything else) need to keep selling "new" stuff, so they add dubious features that make buyers go "Wow!" but probably rarely if ever get used. I'll stick with what works.

Want another one? You can have mine for $50 ..... it's pretty nasty sounding. The newer modelers don't just have more features ...... they are FAR better sounding than those of even a few years ago.

 

[legionserial]

I go for individual pedals.

I figure that a pedal built for one dedicated effect is likely to have been better optimised for that effect than a multi effects pedal.

I also don't really like digital effects with the exception of my boss digital delay which I love. Especially if we're talking overdrive/distortion/fuzz. I borrowed a some diditech multiFX thing off a friend one, and all the distortions were so heavily gated that it just sounded completely unnatural. Overdrive isn't really overdrive if it's digital, it's just an emulated effect. I'm sure the guys that program these things are pretty diligent, but I can't see it being as good as the real thing. Boss' latest fuzz pedal is digital and that just seems a little odd to me. In fact it seems odd to me that they didn't just stop making new fuzz pedals after the hyper fuzz. Or at least keep making the hyper fuzz. But that's not really relevant to this topic.

Also, I find some small amount of joy in collecting new pedals and adding to the collection. It's like each new stompbox adds a little more versatility to your repertoire.

Also, I hate having to press a whole bunch of buttons and scroll through menus to get the sound I want. I like to turn a couple of dials. I'll take analogue dials over digital buttons any day. I'd rather turn a dial slowly and hear the effect gradually change than mash a button and listen to it change in increments. These are tiny details, but they add up.

 

[stevieb]

An "opinion or two" is what the op asked for. It should be pretty damned obvious it's my OPINION.

So, back it up with something about your experience- WHY you prefer analog. Good Lord, if you turned that into even a middle-school composition teacher, he's hand it back to you with an "F" and a note saying "Is this a joke? NOT funny."

I haven't "ditched" anything. It appears your reading skills are no better than your writing.

Want another RP-7)? You can have mine for $50 ..... it's pretty nasty sounding. The newer modelers don't just have more features ...... they are FAR better sounding than those of even a few years ago.

Nah, I'm fine. I agree, the distortion sounds are ugly (although the thing seems to do well with it's starved-plate tube- the tube clean patch is pretty good,) but some of the effects sound okay to me- wah, tremolo, for instance. I keep the thing mainly because it comes in handy at times. Not ragging on you, Bob, but $50 is probably close to a premium price for the old boy.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Not ragging on you, Bob, but $50 is probably close to a premium price for the old boy.

I wouldn't have taken it that way. My point actually was that it's a piece of crap. My main intent is to throw it in the garbage since I wouldn't inflict it on anyone.
It's just that for you to suggest that you know anything about modern multi's because you have an RP7 is funny to me. The comment that the new ones simply have more features suggests to me that you haven't fooled with any modern ones, so you're really not in a position to have a good assessment of them.

You've developed a habit of getting insulting and nasty to people for absolutely no reason at all like you did to C7. No one is required to post how YOU want them to post.
It's perfectly acceptable for someone to just come in and state their opinion and nothing more if they wish. And we all know C7 ...... he's been here a long time. So we know him well enough to not always need him to go thru a long post explaining why he prefers analog. It's just an opinion.
Adding onto what they said because you feel it doesn't go far enough is cool. Insulting them isn't and just makes you look douche-ish.

I always read your posts with interest for a couple of reasons:
1. I lived my first 54 years in Baton Rouge and New Orleans until after Katrina and I know you have a studio in New Orleans.
2. You're 'old school' like I am and so it's always interesting to see where other guys that have been at it a long time have gotten to in these modern times.
BUT .... the fact is that many of us old farts don't really keep up with the very latest in music technology and tend to think our way was best even though nowadays that's not really the case anymore. It's simply another way of doing things.

So when you jump in someones' shit like you did here to C7 it's unjustified and more importantly, starts shit that there's no need to start.
Your knowledge is appreciated ........ for me at least, your nasty attitude isn't.
Others might well feel differently though.

 

[GONZO-X]

mr c

how do you like the Decimator? That's something I've been looking into lately.

i really like it.
i had a boss NS-2, and thought it was fine, but the isp is better, IMO, it seems more......transparent.
it's cut in/cut out points are better dialed in, i think...

the NS-2 had better routing options, but my idea was to simplify my board to the max.

if i had to throw everything away except one pedal, i'd keep the Fulltone Fatboost III.

 

[Zaphod B]

I have a combination of digital and analog on my pedal board.

Running into the front of my amp I have a Fulltone Clyde Deluxe wah, a Fulltone OCD overdrive, and a Boss OD-2 overdrive. These are all analog.

In the FX loop I have an Eventide Time Factor and an Eventide Mod Factor, both of which are digital and kind of multi-FX (in that there are various FX and algorithms from which to choose, but only one at a time for each box.) The Eventides have very good AD/DA converters, good enough that I don't feel the need to configure them for true analog bypass.

I did experiment with a POD XT Live as a multiFX but found it to be a bit of a tone-killer.

The point is that there isn't a single answer, but just what works for you.

 

[stevieb]

Okay, Bob, fair enough. I like and respect you, so when you say something, I am inclined to listen. I wasn't meaning to jump C7, but I could have expressed my though with less assertion. What I meant was, "Okay, that might be a reasonable statement, but it is, at the least, a very broad, sweeping one. How 'bout something to back it up?" If he had said something like "From my experience, Individual ANALOG pedals have it all over digital multi-pedals," I might have asked for elaboration on that experience, but you are right, I was over the top. Thanks for calling me out on it, really, and I will try to be a bit more "friendly" in similar situations, in the future.

C7, please accept my apology for nailing you. I do, however, think you were out of line for carrying this to another, totally unrelated thread.


As for the relative quality of sounds from the RP-7, I don't exactly agree with you about it being "crap." Compared to the newest, I don't doubt it's stuff is lacking, but hey, that's something like 15 years of development. Consider, the RP-7's sounds are not really any, or much, better, than the RP-6- the only real difference between the two was the "Learn-a-Lick" feature. The next in the line (RP-8, maybe, I don't recall) was perhaps a little better, etc. etc. but IMO, things like 8-channel digital recording on the latest ones is just kind of silly- you can do that with other devices, and if one goes "poof!" you at least have the other thing still functioning. I probably should have explained further, it was late and I was headed to bed soon after my post.

 

[Lt. Bob]

sent ya' a PM man ...... very cool dude ....... you're a good guy ..... glad to see it.

 

[c7sus]

C7, please accept my apology for nailing you. I do, however, think you were out of line for carrying this to another, totally unrelated thread.

I don't want your phony apology that you only offer after LtBob called you on your shit.

Go fuck yourself.

Then get over yourself.