Are you as good a songwriter as the pros ?

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grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
Well, are you ?
Is it arrogant, foolhardy or delusional to claim that songs you've written are as good or sometimes better than songs you like by artists you admire ?
Is it a given that a hobbyist cannot write songs as good as professionals that have been doing it for years ?
 
considering the fact that a lot of the stuff that pros write is godawful crap I'd say it's definitely possible some guys right here on HR are as good as any pro.
 
The only difference between any one of us hapless nobodies and the "pros" is luck and circumstance, so yeah, we're all pretty much the same.

I will say that for me personally, there are only two bands that I like in which I think to myself "man I wish I could write songs like that". I strive to reach their level of what I think is awesomeness.
 
I think what Greg said about it being a matter of circumstance is basically it.

I see songwriting as being like any other skilled trade; once you learn how to do it properly, you're no better or worse then the "pros" regardless of your fame.

That said, as for my own songwriting, sure i think it stacks up; I'm confident. Whether it will go anywhere is a totally different story!
 
Define "pros"... I think lots of great songwriters never make a penny and some that make money are lousy.

But I agree about the arrogance factor. A lot of professionally released stuff is incredibly well-written and not given it's due credit for whatever reason. I sometimes think many of the most critical listeners don't produce anything themselves. Or they're frustrated musicians who can play well, but can't write. I went to a friend's place once and he was sitting there smirking with a guitar saying, "I just played every song on the new White Stripes album. It was so easy!", implying that he could have made that album. Another guitar player I played with said the same thing about an old Stooges record and then said "If I could go back in time I would totally do it before they did." Obviously people who say that shit are missing the point of the music. It's about being in a headspace and how you express it. Because you can recite someone elses speech word for word and even catch some mistakes doesn't mean you could have written it. Also a good song should sound natural, and many listeners mistake that for simplicity or simply don't give it a fair shake because they don't like the genre...and of course no one can judge their own stuff objectively. Most are going to think their stuff is great and everyone else's sucks. That's human nature. People do that with more than just music. No one wants to think their abilities are limited.

But to answer your question, yes- I actually believe my stuff blows away the vast majority of music ever recorded. I'm much more humble about my musicianship and recording ability, probably because those are measurable. :o
 
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fat_fleet said:
But to answer your question, yes- I actually believe my stuff blows away the vast majority of music ever recorded.
Click to expand...

And what's more, if you don't at least believe that about your own stuff, you're probably not making anything I would care to listen to.
 
All pro songwriters start out as amatuers. When their amatuer song finally got picked up, they were no longer an amatuer.
 
Learning to tell the difference between the actual good songs you write and the songs that you write that you like and think are good can be a challenge.

I know that the songs my band writes (which are either written solely by me or solely by the other guy) are almost always better than the songs that the other people we share a bill with when we're playing songwriter's nights, which is our main gig - they might have more facebook likes, be better singers, have more girls mooning at them, but we're better songwriters.

Arrogance? Perhaps a little.
 
I write my tunes better than anyone else in the history of songwriting.

:)
 
I can write decent songs IMHO but I could use a good producer to improve them.
 
To me the performance is much of the song, fwiw. The same song performed differently sometimes makes all the difference.
 
Everything said previoulsy is valid & subjective and situationally appropriate and stuff like that.
The songs I write aren't as good as anyones simply because I can't write a complete song on my own. I have NO facility for melody.
Once I collaborate things change.
Some of the songs I written collaboratively have been good and a couple were amazingly good but they aren't mine in the sense of complete personal ownership.
At best alone I can cobble together a chord progression, song structure and lyrics.
Not many pros make it just doing that - maybe some rappers?
 
rayc said:
Everything said previoulsy is valid & subjective and situationally appropriate and stuff like that.
The songs I write aren't as good as anyones simply because I can't write a complete song on my own. I have NO facility for melody.
Once I collaborate things change.
Some of the songs I written collaboratively have been good and a couple were amazingly good but they aren't mine in the sense of complete personal ownership.
At best alone I can cobble together a chord progression, song structure and lyrics.
Not many pros make it just doing that - maybe some rappers?
Click to expand...

You're half Elton John, half Bernie Taupin.
 
I don't know that there's a lot of objective metrics that you can use to judge whether or not a song is "good" as written.
You can judge whether or not a song is well-recorded. That's pretty straightforward.

But every metric for the quality of the songwriting itself is really subjective. What's catchy to one is repetitive and annoying to another. What's deep and clever to one is sophistic and banal to another.

That being said, my songwriting is brilliant. If I didn't think so, I probably would spend a lot more time playing video games and a lot less time trying to record this stuff.
 
I've written some pretty good songs - if you time travelled back about 35 years, some might've even been hits ... The second biggest problem with my music is that I am not a professional musician and don't have the playing ability to make my songs sound their best.

Who cares though, I'm in this for the fun of it.
 
Naturally this is subjective. I think I've written a few "good" songs that I think could compete with some of the most "successful writers" in similar genres. However, I've also written a couple of hundred not so good songs (some were downright pathetic). You have to write crap to learn how to write good stuff.

I've made a few bucks in the process with a couple of songs used in movies and a TV show. I've been paid for a couple of jingles and for composing music for a couple of indie films and a couple of stage plays and I've even writen music/voice over for a couple of industril training videos and music on hold.

While I've had some minor "successes" - I've had some miserable failures and I have a file box full of rejection letters. But, I take the craft serious and I keep trying, keep writing and hopefully keep improving.

Certainly the chances of major "success" are small and regardless of the amount of dedication and significant effort involved - there is a great deal of luck involved and I have no real expectations of anything more than small successes here and there (maybe enough income to by a piece of gear or two.

However, if we are serious about writing, we have to keep writing, learn from failures and accept successes with due appreciation. Am I confident in my abilities - I think any performing artist has to have a large dose of self confidence - but I hope I am humble enough to balance confidence with reality.

While much luck may be involved, I do know that the harder I work, the luckier I get.
 
How about we look at this from another perspective:

Anybody who writes music they think is crap, please raise your hand.
 
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